Tomorrow morning I’ll be chatting with Shahar Markovitch, El Al’s new Chief Digital and Information Officer.
Clearly he a has a big job ahead of him, but I was impressed by the breadth of his knowledge and passion after watching Hillel Fuld’s interview with him:
A few years ago I got an email from Gal Egozi, who was in charge of what I called a massive Matmid devaluation in 2015. We had a fascinating 90 minute long conversation with topics ranging from the AA breakup to the HAS Advantage implosion, but he requested that the conversation be off the record. Hopefully this time around it won’t have to be.
I’m not expecting the world to change overnight, but if you could change one thing at El Al, what would it be?
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303 Comments On "If You Could Change One Thing At El Al, What Would It Be?"
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Attitude!!!
שבכלל דבריו דבריכם
I’m most probably never flying elal again. I gave them 50k in business just this year. They have everything that is wrong with them. From matamid, to money, no space in seats, disrespectful, no prayer quarters, terrible technology, broken tvs, no accomodation, terrible website, charge for every little thing. Worst flight between flying with their competitors like delta, united and AA. my next flight is already with delta. They dont know how much money they are gonna lose from customers just like me, which there are many like me. They can change most of their issues but they have a lost reputation in my mind and, I will never spend that money again just to lose it to a terrible airline. By the way this is my first bad review ever. Just a terrible experience. If they cant cater to their clients that are 75% of their income (jews) then there should be a competing airline to put them out of business. #NeverElAl
Wow! I totally hear you. But What happened? How did you go from spending 50K on them this past year and then totally go abe on them?
though it’s painful – bc, like you, I want ElAl to be great or, even, good – it’s hard to disagree with you. I had a horrible experience on a biz class flight – the husband of the flight attendant sat next to me – he got all the attention of the flight attendant; she couldn’t do enough for him; she ignored me – great wife, bad flight attendant; bad policy to allow a spouse to be attended by an employee-spouse. and, the husband-passenger periodically did vigorous exercises in his seat – every time he moved, he shook my seat. he wasn’t paying for his seat; I was paying a lot for mine. I complained about these problems and some other tech problems. ElAl gave me “150 points,” the value or use of which was never explained. when I asked my travel agent about it, he told me that the accommodation meant nothing. I haven’t flown ElAl since then.
treat your Jewish people like we are being treated on united/delta,
JUST TRY TO
we wanna fly elal
but we cant !!!!!!!
any other airline understands Jewish needs more then elal
how come ??????
hope you make improvement !!!!!!
will come back to you ……
2 part price and points value.
Maybe change the people that are on the flights
Definitely their attitude towards technology. They need their website and apps rebuilt from scratch.
The food.
reduce exorbitant charges when getting an award ticket
More comfortable spacious seats in coach that do not require a monetary upgrade.
More leg room for coach
And seat size
and seat comfort
To not abandon passengers over shabbos…
Stop reducing legroom. Dreamliner is even more uncomfortable than before.
Better mileage redemption and attitude/customer service
They need to join an alliance. I‘d like something to show for such a long flight instead of their practically useless Matmid points.
Supposedly politics has it hard for them to be in an alliance.
Me thinks they do not like giving away seats to other programs redemptions when they can hopefully sell it for more.
Not politics. No alliance would put up with their policy of rolling away your points after 18 months.
I agree
1) Faster boarding procedures. (Maybe a family with young children policy.)
2) better transfer ratio with AMEX or start one with chase.
3) less announcements on flight!
4) again, less annoying announcements on flights
Other than that I love them! Great menu too…
Treat their customers like a valuable commodity make them feel important…not that they are doing you the favor to fly their airline. Be empathetic when things go wrong and admit fault where appropriate.
Ditto
On flight last month, they didn’t have Badatz for my seatmate. When he said something, steward (nastily) said to eat the regular food – it’s Kosher.
I’m sure it’s my imagination, but it feels like they automatically prepare 10 fewer Mehadrin meals than were ordered…
I always order a Mehadrin meal, bring my own food, and tell the staff they can give my Mehadrin meal to the poor soul who got shorted…
Usually earns me their appreciation.
Definitely earned my appreciation, thanks for the idea! Keep up the good work;)
Same here only we were both females. Don’t give me attitude abt my kosher choices. A little religious tolerance pls
Absolutely.
Seat size and leg room for sure!!
Nothing. Zip. Zilch. They’re great
how tall or you?? can i keep m feet in your seat?
i guess you where never on a diff airline…
The website. Gotta be realistic, can’t expect them to improve the customer service- they are Israeli! Let’s shoot for something realistic. A good website My second thing would be a good points system but im trying to be realistic…
Yehuda, I understand your comment but, please, if Israel were just to slide on that kind of thinking, it would still take years to get a phone and Israelis would only be using land lines. complacency or low expectations do Israel no favors. it should have a world-class airline. but my own experiences have made me sympathetic to every critical comment that I have read, so far.
The mileage program hands down
Web site…start up nation should be able to figure that out.
Delta
Seats need to be wider so they don’t crush your ribs
Their hatred toward Chareidim
Agreed!
Charaidim need to learn manners..I’m a charaidi my self I cringe on the lack of manners…
Noise, lack of respect for a fellow passanger.
Basics like please and thank you..shoving down isles without excuse me…waking up tired passengers for maariv or schachris…
Davening loud when passengers are sleeping.
Get it…so after all this passengers really love us!
However if fellow charaidim had respect for others…others would respect charaidim.
Looks like noone has any good things to say about the terrible airline, i just dont see your need to bash your fellow chareidim when THEY clearly have the hatred in their eyes for US not Vica-versa
Problem is the is no leg room or a set place to daven so people have to go to the most open place. if their airline was comfortable, then people would be seat. i had to get up at least once every hour and a half because my leg was blowing up and full of pins and needles.
No offense, I’m pretty sure nowadays that’s a perk for as opposed to how it used to be.
Not everyone has to cater to Chareidim and their beliefs- jew or non-jew.
The economy seats are horrendously small and no leg room
In flight wifi
They just announced that they are going to install WiFi on their planes
And no doubt charge a bloody fortune for it
They already have ‘WiFi.’ The problem is it’s useless for anything other than their own entertainment package.
Space to breathe on the plane.
Yup. A smoking section please
I think he meant space where all of us could breathe. A smoking section would mean that the majority who don’t smoke couldn’t breathe (not to mention that just about every country in the world bans smoking on flights that depart from it). Just quit!
There planes. They’re extremely old and outdated
Attentiveness
Quality of service for price paid. They can’t hide behind the best security bs anymore, all airlines are secure.
I don’t believe that to be true. I believe that the security is better on ElAl. it is not bs. I don’t know very much about behind the scenes operations but, based on my experience, I do know that luggage inspection is much better on ElAl than on other carriers. also, other airlines do not interview their passengers. I am willing to pay more for security but I want the service to be at least the equal of other, superior, airlines.
I do know about their security procedures and they are second to none. I work with them on a regular basis and NO other airline comes close.
More ticketing agents! On our last flight home from israel they didn’t have enough staff checking in luggage. The lines were crazy – mobs ensued and many people (including myself) missed their flights regardless of being there over 3 hours earlier!
Seat pitch & width
Definitely more legroom,either way since I am flying for last there is no one to talk,so let’s try again
Increase in passenger legroom and seat size in economy class
No tolerance policy regarding clowns who demand they not sit next to women.
More spacious seats. Even the extra legroom doesn’t compare to other airlines. And the ultra orthodox Men not controlling where everyone sits. it should be arranged before the flight in an orderly fashion. And the food definitely use to be better.
The hold music
A separate family section for families traveling with kids
Change airlines.
El Al is the best airline, but I can’t afford it and had to fly with different airline to Israel
Legroom legroom legroom. And stop harassing people with ur bogus security questions by silly 18 year old girls that think they are cute!!
the squished seats!
Stop the practice of shuffling women around to accommodate religious nut jobs. Then we can talk about the seat witdh or food quality.
Most women I know would anytime prefer to sit next to one of their own, and instead of intolerance and name calling Motzei Tisha B’av…
How about accommodating those who don’t want to eat & sleep right near (If not touching (check out the complaints of cramped seats etc.)) some one of the opposite gender for 12 hours, by revealing the gender of one’s neighbor on the seat map for the travel agent to see.
Wow, how the tolerant liberal leftists suddenly turn to name calling and belittling.
MAXINE WATERS for PRESIDENT!!!!
Seat legroom, price, food. The attitude is expected.
Aircraft and price
A mechitza
Close them!!!!
No middle seats in business class!
For a country that is an innovator with regard to technology, their website stinks!
A SEFER TORAH FOR MON AND THURS FLIGHTS
I had it once! A passenger brought it along. Was on the late Continental.
Website improved
Customer service- get placed on perma hold when call, no response to emails either
Thanks!
The price, it’s just not affordable. Partner with other airlines to offer deals from Europe.
Separate men’s and women’s rows so no one is forced to sit with the opposite sex if they choose not to. The important point here is to have enough single sex rows to meet demand and if you didn’t buy a ticket in this row you cannot change seats because you are seated next to a woman.
Charge more in this section 🙂
seriously ?? this is an airline not a shul or institution that is reflective of the party’s religious beliefs.
Maybe to learn the definition of “service”
their website Is so annoying hoe do I credit as retroactive flight to quantas I don’t know how to do it and its annoyng as anything thanks
More leg room and an upgraded website
Entire customer service department. I’ve never had a good experience and I don’t ever plan on flying with them again
Their obnoxious attitude toward Shabbos!
Eliminate the ubiquitous delays, mostly due to an aging fleet.
BRING BACK STAND BY TICKETS WHEN THE PLANES HAS A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE SEAT AVAILABLE. ITS A WASTE TO FLY PLANES EMPTY.
Sell at the gate business class or first class at deep discount empty seats .
No one would ever buy a ticket again
If they can’t finally deal with the pilot issues nothing else matters. If flights are always late or canceled, then the airline is done.
Not related to “Digital”, but:
After an overnight flight from the US, ElAl wakes everyone up 2.5 hours before landing to serve breakfast! All other airlines start the same routine an hour later (like 1.5 hours before landing).
Move the Miami flight to Fort Lauderdale to be closer to Palm Beach County, Boca Raton etc. It will be much more centered for the Jewish/Iseaeli population in South Florida. In addition it would maximize rhe JetBlue partnership.
Not a bad idea. But this guy has nothing to do with that.
Fort Lauderdale has an International terminal that can handle it and it is cheaper for the airline.
The International terminal is not the only issue…transatlantic flights require longer runways. Fort Lauderdale does international flights, but not necessarily the longer hauls/biggest jets.
How can they not be in an alliance AND have such a terrible mileage program? Need to fix one of the two. Have avoided flying since Eilat flight in 2012!
NEW PLANES. THERE PLANES ARE FROM 1800’S CHEAPER TICKETS
1. Co branded CC, I am sure everyone is recommending this but a real cobranded card with Amex or Barclays. I spend a few million per year on Amex and won’t mind if it goes towards an elal card if it was very good, which brings to the next points:
2. They need a legit mileage program, non expiring points, real redemptions, points upgrades etc. Let them at least copy the mosaic JetBlue model for starters. I feel more value in my Walgreen’s points then I do in matmid.
3. Obviously a new website that is tested and developed for chrome. with HTML5 (no flash) with proper page rendering and everything else the modern post Y2K world is used to.
The thing is that nothing will come from this meeting besides for possiby some input into the website, the reason I say so is as follows;
– The guy you are meeting is the main IT guy, which means he only has input and control on digital stuff i.e. website and mobile site.
– Isrealis from my multiple experiences dealing with their corporate heads only listen to the Americans “to make them happy and feel liatebei to”, you can show them a clear path that needs to be taken, they will listen and pretend they will do it but in reality they what they feel in their isreali heads is the better way “the stupid Americans don’t understand these things”. Eventually when they fail at it they say “we invested so much and nothing good came out, therefore no point investing further”.
This is true in IT by them as well as retail stores, just recently I was consulting for an isreali brand looking to come into America, I gave them a clear plan of success, they obviously did not listen and they were failing and eventually after lots of wasted money and time they started on my plan and are finnaly being successful.
Point is that tbere is 0% chance elal will actually change anything from your conversation. You are “just some American blugger who tink he undstend big tings”
It is a shame because they do not realize how many thousands of young from millionaires there are today who spend millions on their cards.
The frum world has a very large portion of 1%’rs, a 1%’r is someone making over 389k gross per year. There are thousands of frum Amazon sellers and many that I know are making at least that.
They just know the frum in Israel who mainly have bare income. There is tremendous spending power by the frum Americans.
Pesach programs for 15k+ are sold out each year and keep growing.
They need to understand this and cater to this.
But they need to know that this segment are smart and will only move spent over to elal if they get real value. No blackout dates, nice deals etc..
Mint style is a basic way to ease the Isrealis into this mindset.
/Rant
That it should be possible to request while checking in, that you want “special seating”, hence they will assign you a seat next to another passenger of the same gender, then all problems of changing seats after boarding will be eliminated.
After all they know which passengers are male & which are female, so it shouldn’t be a big deal to seat you next to someone of the same gender.
A Mens section would be another possible suggestion.
More air conditioning on planes.
Hand out drinks the same time as meal, not 25 min before.
More security people available when checking in, so don’t have to wait on long line.
Let men and ladies switch seats in a cordial way if they feel they should.
Treat religious passengers nicely.
I paid for a seat with extra legroom and instead of extra legroom, there was no legroom. The seat in front of me had a big metal electrical box that protruded into my legroom. I complained to the stewardess and she said that the flight was full and there were no other seats. After the flight, I contacted corporate, and they too refused to refund me the extra fee that I paid for extra legroom. This box is found on every plane in the same spot. They have nerve to charge extra for this seat.
Two Joints star Alliance
Start accepting American Airlines miles as they once did.
American can’t do that thanks to the former TWA workers who are ‘owed’ pension money they lost in TWA’s bankruptcy. Long story. Search DDF archives – both Dan and I have posted it.
the statute of limitations on that case should be over by now
It’s not…. In fact, it’s why American stopped flying to Israel after the USAir merger in January 2016.
ElAl=No Frills & No Leg Room
The price
They should join an airline alliance. Star Alliance would be preferable.
Seats on the dreamliner are uncomfortable. They are very narrow and hard
They should have a section for Haredi, for a additional fee, so they do not have to sign. Ext to women.
Attitudes towards passengers and be competitive with pricing
The price my husband and I traveled with our son from Miami to Israel via air Swiss we paid the price ElAl quoted us for 1 person for all 3 of us with swissair itd. A shame! Last year we flew ElAl the seats were small you pack people like sardines and you charge them extra for it too!
Poor customer service needs to improve. I recently flew business class to a simcha & have back issues. I asked for help placing my hand luggage above my seat & was refused. I wrote to customer service to complain & was told “It’s not their job .” My response was next time I’ll fly Delta.
They could not care less, I promise you:(
hOW ABOUT PASSENGERS PLACING THEIR HAND LUGGAGE IN OTHER PASSENGERS OVERHEAD BINS?
More comfortable seats – bigger ones
On my last return flight from tlv to JFK I arrived to the airport. 3 hours be the flight. By the time I was done with check-in and security I had to run to the gate because it was 15 minutes be departure.
Make chareidim feel like that their welcome: let’s face reality, there will be a minyan shachris on the flight if it is an overnight flight. We r willing to work with you if you work with us. You can determine when and where to pray and we will stick to it.(if it works according the halachoc times. Check out chai tables or MyZmanim in-flight) Instead it’s always a fight as if we r trying to be in your way. Let’s not forget. These minyanim happen every single day! Make a plan that works!
Maybe invite him to your home and show him what “hachi babayut ba’olam” should look like.
Get rid of the dreamliners!
More spacious seats
To be treated like human beings
I am in Chicago, and there are a LOT of people who would love a direct flight from Chicago to Israel.I have heard many times that it wouldn’t work. Why not??? Can you please look into it. Thank you
I second this.
Far more likely you’ll get it from United….
the expiration of miles and the undeserved criticism on this site. I love flying my nation’s carrier
Because you’ve probably never flown anything else. If anything, the criticism on this site is tame. I fly from Israel to the US once a month. Avoid El Al like the plague.
Offer a little more in premium economy to make it worth it ( I.e. wider seats than reg economy , designated overhead space, and perhaps a foot rest.
Non Israeli stewardest
Fat chance.
1.More room for the legs !
2.personal screen !
3.carger !
4.point system better !
5.cheap tickets !
Their godawful website is a disgrace.
Fly out of Chicago- it will work well for everyone living in the Midwest. It has been a while since you flew out of Ohare
The current non-stop premium from MIA is nearly 70% upcharge… for less legroom and no upgrade opportunity. Yet they are spending WILDLY on advertising.
Probably not on anyone else’s mind, but buy some new B747-8’s !
Treat passengers like human beings not objects.
My wife and two kids were passengers on the recent ElAl flight no. 8 from New York to Israel, which was supposed to be a direct flight to arrive in Israel before Shabbat. My family, a loan woman with two crying, hungry and thirsty kids, had to stay the entire Shabbat in the Athens airport with no kosher food or drink or change of clothing or a place to sleep.
I wrote a complaint to ElAl on their website and was given a confirmation no. that ElAl customer service would respond within 21 days. After 30 days when I did not hear from ElAl and entered the confirmation no. to see the status of my claim, the confirmation no. could not be found. Another words my complain was thrown to the abyss.
Shame on ElAl for what they did to my family. I am getting ready to file a law suit against them.
If anyone can help, please contact me.
They must improve their service I fly elal at least 3 times a year , lately the in service entertainment frequently does not work planes are old and seedy looking , not sure if they’re under staffed or the crew is overworked I try my best not to bother them
No movies. Annoying, distracting, and too often immodest.
More leg room and wider sits I economy
1)Stop weighing our hand luggage and be easier on the weight of checked baggage.
Have more interline agreements. So that when flights gets cancelled, people dont have to wait days to be reacomodated
More? They don’t have any….
Stop packing people like sardines in coach. I only fly el al when i absolutely can’t fly with a diff airline. They don’t care about
People just the almighty $.
I finished my first bottle of water in business class and was refused a second bottle !!I was told I can drink tap water..can you believe it?? I paid $8000 for my ticket and they would not give me another bottle of water so I waited till the flight attendant got busy and asked a different one and she said well we don’t have! t I said I’m too sick right now to drink tap water so she brought me a tall bottle of water. It’s not like they let you bring water onto the plane and I don’t drink anything else. I Pd $8,000 and they would not give me another water bottle !! Please tell that to the gentleman you are meeting tomorrow and maybe don’t offer him a drink either 🙂
What do you want for poor $8,000 you should get sardines oil to?
Service should translates to shirut, NOT shirutim ( toilets )
Attitude, from check in security to boarding to in flight,
Yes we are Jews and some of us are hot headed, however in most airlines I traveled the staff stick to rules ever so sweetly. They make it their business to accommodate the nastiest attitudes.
With elal almost every encounter I had was with the staff being on defense.
So yeah attitude is something that can probably easily be addressed from corporate down to the laymen and it would make a significant impact imho
Better deals.
The unbelievable cheapness of the Matmid program. Point system assigned and how many points needed to redeem for a flight is disgusting.
Accommodating those who don’t want to eat & sleep right near (If not touching (check out the complaints of cramped seats etc.)) some one of the opposite gender for 12 hours, by revealing the gender of one’s neighbor on the seat map at least for the travel agents or doing a mens section.
Dane you asked to change one thing and with so much on elal needing improvement it’s hard to choose so I must name a few in order of importance to me.
Customer service must be improved. More affordable premium economy area. They need a normal point redemption and or alliance since matmid is currently worthless. Newer planes that are up to par with the tech if 2010’s.
Website and Customer service they both stink
Let passengers bring on two bags with no extra charge. Individual movies on Boston- Israel flight.
The aircraft
Direct to Chicago flights
They should acknowledge that frum ppl are their bread and butter, and stop the humiliation tactics.
Bring El Al into the 21st Century, by using technology to make it easy to accommodate the male/female seating preferences before boarding takes place. Then no one is forced to switch seats last minute causing flight delays.
prices are expensive on elal!!
Their hatred toward Chareidim And leg room
More space in coach seating & nicer attitude from flight attendants
Dan should be the CEO on ELAL☺
Oh that wld b freakin awesome!
My last flight was chaos. People wandering around the plane, unattended kids, people hanging around the galley area, shmoozing, ignoring those who were trying to rest. I don’t have to pay $1000+ for this experience, I can hang out with my relatives. How can you maintain customer service when the customers are allowed to behave like they are spoiled brats in a badly run kindergarten? I avoid El Al if I can because the seats aren’t the only thing that are uncomfortable.
They just need to fly some good airlines and see how it’s done right.
The planes from toronto
maybe someone can explain it to me….
how come there are so many complaints and they are still in business?
i would say you people are looking to complain.
I am a loyal united guy and let me tell you the reasons. Allost all of which El al fails at.
1) recourse- if something goes wrong I have a number I can call and it is taken care off. Like being diverted for weather I got my rent a car paid for in a week. If it’s an equipment or service problem I can get between $200-500 in vouchers. It’s nice to know a human will deal with you.
2) planes – united has the 777-200 and 300 and they have 110 business class seats between them each day. The new Dreamliner only has 36. So between both their Newark flights they have 72 vs 110. Where do you have a better chance of getting a better price or an upgrade
3)time of flights. – united let’s you leave either late afternoon or later at night. The El al times are the flight that leaves at 1 pm so you only get tired when you land at 6 am in Israel or the flight leaves 9pm which means you have to deal
With rush hour. 4.50 and 10.50 are much more appealing times. Also flying back to EWR the United flight arrives 4 am and you can get your luggage and be in manhattan before 5 am many times. Good luck landing in terminal b at 6 am and getting to manhattan before 10 am. This is beyond stupid.
4) mileage and alliance. – being 1k(which is not hard for Israelis) I get 11 united miles and 5 Amex miles for a total of 16 miles per dollar spent. If you even give each one a valueof 1.5c per mile that’s getting a 25% rebate. Never mind the systemwide upgrades and 3 70 pound bags. Lifetime status etc. lhavdil for El Al
5) website – so easy to navigate in United. To book and find awards to see seating chart and where your plane is coming from and what entertainment is on it. Again Lololol about El Al
6) alliance – between lounges all over the world for free and the Polaris lounge in EWR the El al lounge in TLV is a joke.
So even though El al pays lip service there is so
Much they need to do to even come close.
Rejoin the ONE WORLD alliance.
They were never in it. You could just redeem points on American for El Al tickets. Not any more.
Close the airline down. Terrible airline
allow for seperate seating in the back 5 rows of the plane
Figure out how to process Check-in lines leaving TLV. No structure whatsoever and arriving 3 hours early cannot even assure you of making the flight. I’ve seen countless fighting and arguing in the lines and it’s embarassing. No other modern country has this issue to that degree.
Too crowded. Too many seats. No seat room, no leg room. Attitude. I will never fky with them again.
To change their attitude to fellow jews
Room for tall people.
I’m not talking about the ability to stretch, simply the ability to sit in a seat without our knees touching the seat in front and if the person in front decided to recline then our knees literally get crushed (very very painful).
This can be solved with different kinds of seats without having to sacrifice the seat pitch. Some aircraft are worse than others.
More legroom in economy
Customer service!
I used to always fly elal ONLY; to support them because they are shomer shabbos and a Jewish airline.
Now I pay more NOT to fly elal and would even make a stopover to avoid them!
The reason is the attitude to orthodox Jews; we get ‘special treatment’, extra dose of rudeness and extra discrimination. Now some of that is self causing. Too many act like “they own the plane”. Kids run wild, stuffing overhead bins, food flying, crazy minyonim on board, etc.
But other airlines cope with the few bad apples without treating the whole orchard horribly.
Elal dumping the alliance with AA only reinforced their arrogant outlook. They could be doing at least 3 times the volume on nyc and lon to tlv routes, but they are losing the market share and market growth because of those reasons that can be summarized in 2 words; arrogance and attitude.
More $300 ticket price mistakes. That will boost passenger loads.
I have not set foot on LY for about 15 years now.
AC, its very hot on those long flights.
Use plastic cups in place of paper cups. You can taste the paper in your drink…
There is nothing better than keeping quiet! Thank you ELAL for providing us with the convenience of flying to our holy land! For this reason, it’s already enough to thank…
new planes, & along the same lines, their entertainment system is terrible, why do I have to watch the movie when they’re playing it????? I’ve been on Aeroflot & I think their entertainment system is better than Elal!!
Honesty and help from customer service!
Two incidents as examples!
1, My wife’s father had passed away suddenly and I called to book a flight ASAP. I was told the next flight was a day later, ignoring TWO flights in the next 8 hours. When I asked about those flights I was told that it would be hard to pack that quickly. I asked if they were for real and was hung up on.
2, My wife was scheduled to have surgery in NY two days after a flight from TLV-JFK. ELAL announced a strike threat that would have impacted so I spent 3 hours on the phone working to change the flight and cut our trip short 4 days. They refused to waive the change fee but admitted they were facing a strike. I ultimately initiated an AMEX investigation and they denied strike talk to AMEX. I produced a newspaper article reporting the strike threat and ELAL talking about it.
Regarding #1: Have you ever heard of something called a “travel agent”?
No, not in 2018…
But you are right, Elal is still backdated 30 years so they can only be booked by a travel agent…
The sudden death happened on a Sunday and my agent did not work on Sunday at that time.
The second incident happened on tisha B’Av. I now have the home number of my agent.
I book my Israel flights through an agent to this day.
Live up to their slogan: הכי בבית בעולם
Absolutely no one to talk to! No one takes responsibility and people are treated like cattle. Very sad that I take my business elsewhere.
Service.
I pay extra not to fly with El Al.
Separate men’s and women’s rows so no one is forced to sit with the opposite sex if they choose not to. The important point here is to have enough single sex rows to meet demand
Even more 100% Kosher and Torah family friendly “Torah Live” content from Rabbi Dan Roth on the entertainment systems.
More room in economy – take out a row or two. USB for all. Better customer service training for flight attendents. I know that’s more than 1 so you can pick one
Honestly @Dan I don’t know what you are looking forward to.
Firstly, this guy is the CTO and CDO. Not really someone that I would expect anything from, other than technology and digital. And while ELAL lacks there, that’s not their biggest problem.
I watched the Fuld video, and while they touch on (one of) their real problem(s), namely that they VIEW THEMSELVES as a company involved in selling a commodity. I doubt whether the CTO will have any influence in changing that (other than the website experience). But even if he does, he doesn’t seem to be on the right track. Rather than having transformative thinking, realizing that they are selling a service, not a commodity. He seems to be focused on improving the commodity experience.
To all those bashing the people that don’t want to sit next to someone of the opposite gender:
If I would tell the stewardess that I have a problem, & my therapist advised me not to sit for a prolonged time next to someone from the opposite gender, will tell stewardess help me? & If the person with the problem is Chareidi?
Respect your own blood….!!
Legroom
I was on flight that was canceled. Was never able to get reimbursed for travel expense back home and for my travel for the next flight.
Seems like they make it nearly impossible to collect what they announced they would reimburse.
It’s a shame, as I love elal but if they don’t stand up to basic customer service I think twice before flying with them.
I felt cheated
Dan, do you think all the anger here is justified? is it just elal or airlines, in general, have stopped caring about their passengers? I for one hope they get a chance to read some of these, bec there are some very good points…
I have one question why didn’t ELAL add 4 Shower Class suites like on Etihad or Emirates on each of their Dreamliners those seats would have been filled on every plane
They should give each passenger is an extra few kilos of luggage space due to the fact that we are only allowed one suitcase instead of the two that we are so used to ‼️‼️‼️
Matmid points. They MUST be automatically registered when you check in for the flight. I find it a supreme waste of my time to have to check to see if they are registered plus an sms should be sent to acknowledge it and balance of points in one’s account.
There attitude to the frum ppl.i have bin taking other airlines lately cause i hate the way i get treated on elal
BS”D
At 4’11”, even I have to complain about lack of leg room and the shrinking seat size! The website needs to be more user-friendly (and in this technological genius of a country in which we live, that should not be too difficult/expensive). The planes need to be upgraded or, better yet, replaced.
My biggest complaint: Matmid. It is the worst of any frequent flyer plan in the sky! Until now, I only flew El-Al but, recently, my eyes have been wandering to other airlines. Chaval (what a pity)! I would rather give my money to our national airline but, alas, that is becoming a bit frustrating!
I’ll end with the positive: I feel safer flying El-Al than any other airline. I have never had a problem with any flight attendants (I usually sleep through the entire flight). In the sardine section, i.e. coach, airline food is airline food no matter what the cooks do to it, so I am used to that and have no problem with it. As an observant Jew, and at the risk of sounding racist(?!), I must admit that flying seems to bring out the worst in Israelis. At the risk of sounding racist(?!), G-d forbid, perhaps it would be helpful (if possible) to put singles and couples in the front (or back) of the plane, families in the middle and observant men in the back (making it easier for them to come to the middle to assist their wives/families, should need be) – not necessarily in that order, though it makes lots of sense and easier to hold a minyan without the men being disturbed. I, personally, am pleased to see people praying during a flight!
I sincerely hope that everyone at El-Al will take the posts here seriously. After all, their ENTIRE business depends on one thing: the satisfaction of their customers. Without us, there would be no El-Al. The world is changing and El-Al needs to keep up with the changes.
Bi’hatzlachah! Good luck!
2 free checked luggage for international flights.
customer service – telephone & on the plane. also, business class meals & service could use serious improvement.
2 Free checked luggage on international flights!
The seats are too close to one another and not enough room by the legs.
I have to include a 2ND Thing I would change.
Matmid!!!!!
At the end of the day I don’t believe they’ll ever change #1 on top.
They love sardines and I’m sure they make more money shipping sardines than they do comfort. (At least a little more comfort)
Years ago when continental a”h started flying to Israel they contacted a friend of mine who is a travel agent with a great working relationship with them. They asked him to give a class how to deal with frum people. They were the first airline that offered the back galley/kitchen for official minyanim. If we work together things will go smoother for the airline and the passengers.
Baby carriages take them 3x the amount of time of united and delta once you land. Total disaster.
Improve the App customer experience for consumers including boarding pass access, authentication process, booking flights and upgrades.
in a comment below, I said “customer service,” but one of the reasons phone help is so essential is that the website is so inadequate. here’s a clue, for the clueless: if you want business, make it easy for people to do business with you; don’t erect obstacles. customers have alternatives.
Price. way too expensive for the tiny seat
More leg room in coach
MORE LEG ROOM!!!!!!
update there out dated planes
sardines belong in a can, not on a 2018 flight
Seriously, close the airline for good..
Boy we are a tough bunch…
Seriously, I’ve flown with them 3 or 4 times, and never had anything to complain about.
More leg room
I would ask for a better awards program, where miles don’t expire unless they weren’t USED / GAINED for 2 years.
And better availability redemption
Most importantly scheduling. I fly on a bi-weekly basis in Business and have stopped flying them as they are currently the least reliable airline flying the North American route. I have had my flight delayed/cancelled by then more often then other carriers. Especially as they are the latest flights out of Israel so if there is a delay they have to cancel until the next morning
2. Better mileage program across the board it currently stinks
Wow! So cool that he is chatting with you. Maybe he is serious about moving el al forward if he is interested in what a seasoned Jewish traveler like you has to say!
Treat their customers like a valuable commodity make them feel important…not that they are doing you the favor to fly their airline. Be empathetic when things go wrong and admit fault where appropriate.
=copy paste from another comment but I think this is the thing.
And its called ATTITUDE!
Empower the lower level customer service agents to do much more to help, rather than needing so many levels of supervisors for stupid changes during irop, delay, cancellation, and giving them more flexibility for ticketed passengers.
Seat: wider, more legroom, more recline without crushing the guy behind you. Seats are horrible!!!
Price
The obvious ones are:
Old Planes, no legroom.
Terrible FF program
Horrible web site
Ticket pricing
Here’s an easy one to fix…
El Al is unique in that they come around and pour drinks for the passengers (albeit in small paper cups) BEFORE the meals are served. So by the time you get your meal, your drink is finished.
Other airlines send 2 carts down the aisle a food cart and a drinks cart. So right after you get your food, you also get poured a drink. Usually in a MUCH larger cup. with lots of ice! Delta will even give you the whole can.
A simple change that can make a huge difference for passengers.
treat jews jewish
Not to be so aggressive to Chareidim
drinks!!!
beer
Frequent flyer program should be compatible with other programs and points such as chase, Amex, etc. Matmid points are limited and expensive.
– No legroom, no legroom, no legroom
– Small seats
– Outdated website
– Poor phone system (on hold forever)
– Worthless Frequent Flyer program
Keep matmid points and don’t let them expire
Agree with everything that’s been said. They need better service. After two horrible trips with them, I gave up and started flying delta. Delta gives you a water bottle when you enter the plane, small move but makes a big difference for the flight. On Elal, when I ask for water i get treated like the biggest annoyance, have to wait 20 minutes and remind them three times till they bring it, in a cup, so that when i need a drink again in half an hour, the process starts again. IF we can’t bring water bottles on planes, at least supply us with one.
add a seating option to seat only next to or between same gender, enough already with the drama, why not just solve the problem.
Sorry I’m pointing out a few that are probably already mentioned:
1. Get some partners, join Skyteam or some alliance. AT least Alaska or something.
2. Make a standard value award redemption chart ie approx. 40k economy or 80k biz from New York, basically revamp the Matmid system and SCAM for Amex points redemption.
3. Redo lounges, especially Newark
4. Upgrade the on-board wines, and change to “a more widely accepted Hasgacha”. Perhaps some food in the lounge with a proper Hasgacha as well, as is done in Johannesburg before Elal flights.
5. Perhaps get biz class meals catered by Pomegranate or something
6. There was no reason to remove first class rather develop a more competitive first class product, there are plenty of travelers from NY, Miami, and LA, etc. who the cost of a first class ticket is a joke, they didn’t fly Elal first because United and Delta biz was simply better.
7. Professionalize there entire staff, from flight attendants, to the counter agents to the call center which should be the first to higher some Americans or some native English speakers in order to lower the language barrier miscommunications, there are plenty of Americans with Israeli citizenship who could easily work for them in order to avoid taxation and legal issues which often arise with foreign employees. Perhaps some American flight attendants as well.
8. Redo the 767’s and 777’s seats for once to match the 787’s, its ridiculous, no wonder Air Canada does so well.
9. Israel is a perfect place for connection flights, after all look what Turkish does which is not far away, obviously there are other issues such as air space restrictions and government subsidizing that can no where near compete with gulf carriers, but still make an attempt, make some connection flights to Eastern Europe to North American and beyond. Currently Elal is entirely dependent on Israel being the destination and departure point, can anyone name me another airline which does such a thing? There are some that do, but look at the size of them.
10. Lease the Hi-fly A380. It would be awesome to fly Singapore first class from NYC-TLV. I know its probably not happening. It would for sure bring in tons of sales, but probably no where near enough to turn a profit. But it would be great on such a flight. 😉
thanks
They ALL Hate frum jews.
This problem probably comes from the top! (the fish starts to stink from the Head…)
they have to treat everyone with respect if they wanna have customers..
The price around chagim time. It’s a chutzpah that they charge over 2000 dollars.
Not a thing because than it wouldn’t be El Al. Safe Travels everyone.
An American points program….not just transfer of Amex points
Row space/leg room.
First thank you Dan. I NEVER posted before but this begs it:
I fly every month from Israel to JFK. For years I proudly flew El Al but several incidents have made me Medallion on Delta. As has been pointed out El Al is run for its employees first and its paying customers second. The pilots “work action” is still going on but was the final straw.
1) I( was on a long line for security at JFK. (This was when the final security at JFK was still downstairs) Along came El Al flight attendants who pushed in front of us and kept making our line longer and longer. Finally someone said to them “we were here first and have been waiting”. the reply was “But we need to get on the plane before you”. So show up earlier than the paying customers!! It was a chilul Hashem for people flying other flights!!!!!
2) On that same flight when we boarded, the people in front of me put their seats back when we were on the ground. They never put them in the upright position and the flight attendant very attentive to them and ignored my requests that I couldn’t reach my bags. When we landed the seats were still pushed back and I had to stand on my seat to get to the overhead bin. Doing that I still couldn’t open the bin so I stayed there. The same flight attendant told me to get down because she couldn’t reach HER bags in the overhead bin. I said “When you get the people in front of me (who were off the plane at that point) to put their seat backs up I will get my bags down. BTW I complained to the flight’s purser and she ignored me too.
3) I was inflight flying business on the aisle. A flight attendant came over and asked if I would mind moving to a middle seat (In business!!!) for someone who was bumped from the upstairs section. I did and the woman coughed and coughed throughout the flight. I offered her cough medicine and she thanked me and told me she was allergic to something in the cabin which was strange because HER HUSBAND WAS THE PILOT. Which indeed he was. He spent his off time with her. I had to move my seat to accommodate her????
4) Last year several flights were delayed or cancelled because of the pilot job action. Never once were we notified and at the last one the crew still hadn’t arrived fifteen minutes after departure time. That meant couch passengers were in the airport five hours before the crew could bother to arrive and no one notified us. Of course when they arrived, they still had to check the plane and we took off over two hours late. That was so unacceptable that I switched to Delta. I am already Medallion on Delta a status-I never reached on El Al.
5) Delta has two standards of meals Badatz and Trief. No fights no arguments. You don’t like it bring your own. The dinner meal is not great but there are kosher sandwiches at the back of the plane throughout the flight. There are also nuts, pretzels and other snacks throughout the flight All badatz.
And to the complaint of one plastic cup of water in Business, Delta does indeed give you a bottle on boarding and bottles throughout the flight as well coming around with water. Summing up: I feel El Al is run by and for the employees. Delta recognizes customer satisfaction is more important.
Dan you don’t have to post this but please bring it up.
The temperament of the flight crew, including and especially supervisors, is woefully inconsistent. It ranges from downright obnoxious to very pleasant. From a benchmarking standpoint, I have flown on international flights in coach, business and first class with Air Canada, American, China Eastern, Delta, KLM, Swiss Air, United and Virgin. El Al’s flight crew attitude pales by comparison.
1) Better rewards program (one that actually is reasonable)
2) Take 6 rows in the back of the plane and designate 3 of them as MALE only and 3 as FEMALE only. People can book this seats if they WANT (no additional charge) and then we can stop hearing the news stories about issues on planes that cause delays and passenger removals and more importantly that embarrass us as a people when the גויים hear these stories.
Dan: Any chance you can do this type notice regarding the way United is changing their planes from the 777 to the 777ER. I realize that the folks in business may be happy with what they’ve done. But for the rest of the entire world, including those in economy plus, it’s a disaster. Just look at seatguru and read the reviews of the seats on those planes. Everyone is loudly complaining about how terrible the flights have become. Once they change the afternoon flight plane to those we’ll all be in a horrible way. I know you always fly in business or first, but of the thousands of Dan’s Deal people I’m sure quite a number of them are terribly affected by this. Any thoughts on what we may be able to do to get them to change their plans (and planes)?
The bottom line for this and for all of the legroom complaints above is that most coach consumers have consistently shown that they choose airlines based on price.
Those willing to pay more can choose a premium economy or business seat, but typical coach passengers just aren’t willing to pay more for that, so I’d expect that trend to continue to get worse.
True, but you cant have it both ways and be a successful airline – tickets being more expensive AND sardine-like sitting.
1. I fly only United, and very often their airfare is higher than ELAL’s fare. And the flights are full, so I wouldn’t say that economy pax only case about price. There are obviously quite a few economy passengers paying more money to fly United.
2. My seats are always premium economy, and in the 777ER those seats are lousy. The aisles have shrunk so you can barely go through them. The seats are narrower, and uncomfortable. The legroom has also been affected. Just read the reviews in seatguru of the premium economy seats on that plane. People are paying for premium economy and getting a horrible flight. Someone with some sense could do to United exactly what United did to ELAL. Which is to steal a ton of their business. I just don’t know who that could be. But if enough people complain, maybe someone will get the idea/message!
I lost my luggage on a direct flight from JFK-TLV and never ever received it!!! I’m still mourning its loss!!
@fjdo. Thank you for reminding me. On two successive direct flights on El Al coming and going the lost my luggage. On the next flight into JFK the told me after three days that the luggage had been tracked down in France would would arrive Monday. I had no luggage (Had to buy on two of the three trips-one i was home) and I went to Pennsylvania for Shabbat. 10 PM Shabbat night two foreign looking guys rang a relatives doorbell. He had no idea about my luggage and didn’t let them in. The next day-style Shabbat- they were back and aasked if he knew about the luggage. He said he didn’t and told them to come back after Shabbat when he could call me. It finally got delivered Monday with tags from some Mid Eastern country. This on a direct flight out of TLV which they told me would be delivered from France Monday. No phone call, no apologuy and no comensation that i spent shabbat in my traveling clothes.
Thats the good story. The first two where they lost my luggage twice in one trip, I received nothing. Nada. They told me that El Al never signed the Montreal Convention and therefore it doesn’t apply to flights originating in TLV. Even if the flight left from JFK. I contacted AX and El Al. gave them the same story. They wouldn’t even let me look for it. AX eventually gave me $500 for emergency expenses (one way). The luggage both ways-which included a new suitcase and all new clothing-was never found or compensated. CUSTOMER SERVICE. Say you are sorry.
Their NY dept. should be closed and reopened by hiring new employees. Their New York office is the worst of the worst.
rejoin the American Airline group, so we can once again apply those miles to ElAl !
I have be
don El Al lchaf zechus– I flew them a few years ago with my son for his hanachas tefillin – the problem was not with the staff, who I thought were actually nice, accommodating, and quite patient. The problem, if any, was with some of the passengers. Already in the check in line one lady started to scream and complain. I actually thought the staff showed a lot a patience towards her. On the way home, many folks, including myself, wanted to buy some duty free items – the poor steward in the back of the plane was surrounded by people desperate for that last minute gift. But he held his composure quite well.m not saying that El Al doesnt have things they could improve (which airline doesnt) , but I think part of the reason people feel so much better treated on other airlines may be because they wouldnt dare pull theshtickthey pull when travelling on El Al.Just flew with them this week. My legs literally did not fit in the seat. I am 6’2. The seat next to me was empty & even trying to sit on an angle didn’t work. Most uncomfortable flight. I explained to staff at check-in, gate, & on flight – they wouldn’t allow me to sit in a bulkhead/exit seat unless i spent an additional 3 digits each way – in addition to the ridiculous $2,200 already spent for my coach ticket. There is no reason seats should be designed that a regular person literally cannot fit. I will be flying Delta or other competitors in the future unless they change the seat layout.
also, only two flights from Miami, the Saturday night flight leaves one hour after Shabbos is over, doesn’t make sense
Join an alliance, so that miles can be used on various airlines. Form a global network to compete with the other Middle Eastern airlines which are eating the bread and butter of many European/Asian competitors.
Treat the passengers with R-E-S-P-E-C-T.
You can not expect a passenger to fly 11 hors with zero snacks available between meals. Set up something in the galley.
my siblings and their families live in israel and refuse to fly El Al (and they’re the types who always support everything israeli) because the service is so bad – to sum up – a poor customer service attitude. if there’s a problem (screen not working, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.) they simply don’t care…… i could go on and on….
The main problem is the israeli-non-jewish culture, that affects the crew and passangers.
I would change the crew for an entirely non-israeli crew who would have the guidance to treat the passengers in the best possible way BUT not with permissiveness.
On a few flights to TLV this year on United, we had the nicest flight attendant who respects frum people and deals with the aggravations that all flight attendants put up with, in a very professional manner. Maybe I just go for his Israeli charm which you gotta admit, you’re not gonna find elsewhere, and we did have interesting conversations with him, but I would take him any day over any non Israeli crew. He knows and respects chareidim and just gets along
they could be less like El Al.
perhaps to accommodate chareidim jews they can designate a section on the plane where they will preference separate seating, it can be clearly advertised on their website so all will be happy. anyone who wishes not to seat near opposite sex can book at that section. I just hope they will not charge extra for that section.
leg space!
leg space
The width of seats & the space between rows. I am a devoted el al flier, but they are making it more & more difficult to be so. It will soon reach the breaking point & the ultimate loser will be el al. Consider the basic well being of your customer.
All caps war; SEAT SPACE AND LEGROOM!!
Just curious – Is the legroom much better in Economy on United/Delta vs. ELAL, or are they all pretty much the same?
Is it worth it to upgrade from Economy to Economy Plus on United?
A normal place to daven…If frum people got together, we could probably negotiate that by refusing to fly EL AL until they provided it.
More legroom
Improvements suggested- treat frequent flyers (other than top platinum better), points were devalued and are worth very little and are harder to earn than ever, upgrades are generally no longer available on dreamliners, make website usable, coach seats are now very small, offer something to platinum frequent flyers
Already good- in-flight service, food is excellent
I’m making reservations tonight for Israel in December. I didn’t give ElAl a thought. My bad experiences years ago got me in the habit of flying United. You all verified my complaints and feelings.
1. try employing flight attendants without attitudes
2. Sat night flights: how about giving extra times for fliers to get to the airport following late Shabat and holidays
Its not for nothing its called EL AL (every landing always late) and the only thing i can think to add the the hundreds of complaints listed above is their audacity to call themselves a “Jewish Airline” when their as anti charedi as Lapid himself Ym”s
with all your complaints their flights are still full
ask them why do they give a attitude when your boooked in a points ticket
no accomaodation on other airline and even no same day change if the flight is delayed and the points booking class is not available, thus practice applies even for gold members
the atitude is that you got a present and we dont owe you anything
The passengers
Yes I love flying but the last trip I have the line for the business class ticket was 30 deep and they only had one security guy checking us in. If you are sell Business Class seat at a premium then treat them like Business Class
the airline
I think they have way overpriced their business seats at $4K+ The competition is significantly less. Well worth a 2 hour stop over to save a multi thousands on a couple.
Many people i know that pay for business are now planning to fly an alternate airline.
They should respect religious people. This includes that the stewards should serve the ordered kosher meals and on a timely manner. And they should stop “making fun of religious people”. They shouldn’t disturb davening more than other airlines. Also I would request for more options how to redeem points.
the price
hey Dan I don’t think you expected such an out pore ! they must be doing something wrong?!!! again we are there primary customers!!
They feifinately need to join an alliance.
Additionally, they should offer 2 free checked bags pp. because Ukraine International & Aeroflot & Ajerbaijan & Royal Jordanian & Turkish Airlines all offer two free bags. These are big players in the Israel Market and El Al needs to start offering customers more than just small seats and nasty attitude.
So how did it go???
So how was it dan? Where are the details?
stop giving in to the haradim as far as having to move a seat. they lost a suit last year and promised it would not happen again . but it continues. if they dont like there seat let them buy a row . or put them all in the back together.
Hi..
My brother went yesterday with elal from Israel to London.
He’s hasidic yes, but never would he make the slightest issue about sitting next to a female….
He asked politely by bag drop if he can get an Isle seat to be able to stretch out a little.
The employer there started screaming and yelling at him for no good reason, till it brought him to tears, she threatened him with throwing him off the plane,
So inappropriate, for no good reason. Yes, its wrong to refuse to seat next to a female in my opinion… But not all orthodox people are like this, and they should acknowledge this.
Would be much appreciated if you mention this.
Thanks a million in advance
M stern
Change their reward program. Impossible terms.
access to entertainment without problems
The israeli concept of “spoiling” someone is what Americans consider basic manners and customer service. They need to train ALL of their employees to spoil ALL customers, ALL the time.
More variety of Airlines to Israel non-stop from the US that would mean El Al would have to close down not a bad idea!
Omg we fly elal all the time bussiness
I love their security! And we never had a problem with anyone being rude to us
I wish their matmid points would be worth more however!!
Prices. I have flown Turkish and other airlines due to significant price differences.
Dan, After about 300 comments, Insights, and ha’aros What was the maskanah? Did The meeting take place? How did it go? Any practical changes ? Or is it going to be the same old rhetoric of “you have to understand… running an aircraft is very difficult… You have to understand how much information how much coordination is necessary… Everyone complains about every small little thing…”
We had a candid conversation, still waiting on approval from El Al to publish the transcript.
Tizkeh lemitzvos. Keep up the awesome work. We are very proud of you!
We’re all waiting for an update of this post!
We had a candid conversation, still waiting on approval from El Al to publish the transcript.
Anything?
I am booking a BC ticket direct from Mia to tell Aviv on el all for next May7-21
Can infer a better rate now or will price be better as time gets nearer?