I was bouncing in between LaGuardia and Newark on a gusty Monday trying to catch a flight home that wouldn’t get canceled, when I saw the news about Delta flight 4819 from Minneapolis to Toronto flipping over after landing. The flight was operated by Endeavor Air CRJ-900, a wholly owned Delta subsidiary.
Another crash just a few weeks after AA flight 5342 crashed over Washington DC? There have been an incredible number of close calls over the past several years, so it’s not shocking that we’ve been shaken out of complacency with multiple incidents. Over the long run, this will be a good thing for aviation safety, as it will force the FAA to modernize, something that has been overdue in the US for decades.
We won’t know exactly what happened to the Delta flight for some time, but from the videos I saw, it sure seems like there was a very hard landing. Notably, pilots usually flare before landing, slowing the plane’s descent and speed before touchdown, something that did not happen with this flight. Was that due to a sudden wind gust, pilot error, or both? It was a clear day, with winds gusting up to 40MPH at the time, though planes land in that kind of wind all the time. It’s too early to know exactly what went wrong, but flight recording data will help investigators figure out what happened.
Due to the extremely rough landing with the right wing tipped down, the right wing impacted the ground and broke off, turning into a fireball. At that point, the plane rolled over and came to a stop, upside-down, and on fire. It was very lucky that the right wing broke off from the fuselage and didn’t engulf the entire plane in flames.
Incredibly, all 76 passengers and 4 crew members survived the crash. 21 passengers were hospitalized, but 20 of them have now been released. This is why seatbelts are required for takeoff and landing, which are the most risky parts of any flight. The passengers remained buckled to their seats, despite being upside-down, and were able to safely evacuate.
It’s also why you should keep your shoes on for takeoff and landing.
And it’s why I advocate for buying a seat and bringing a carseat onboard for infants and toddlers. Severe turbulence on a plane is common and unless you want your child turning into a projectile, the only safe place is buckled into a carseat. Your arms aren’t strong enough to safely protect a lap child and a bassinet won’t be of any help. Seatbelts and carseats save lives.
Sadly, I saw several passengers escaping from the plane with their luggage. This is criminal behavior and has cost lives in past evacuations. When you survive a crash, it’s critical to leave everything behind to allow for every soul onboard to escape before the plane turns into an inferno. Taking baggage off a plane not only hinders the evacuation but can damage evacuation slides. The crew announces this during an evacuation, but alas, people can be selfish. Don’t be that person.
Delta announced that they will provide $30,000 to each passenger on the flight with no strings attached and won’t affect passenger right or hinder their ability to sue the airline.
Delta CEO Ed Bastian shared a little more information about the crash on CBS this morning:
Hopefully, investigators will learn what went wrong, and crews will be trained to prevent this from happening in the future.
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92 Comments On "Delta Offers $30,000 To Each Passenger On Flight 4819; Quick Thoughts On The Crash"
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Is that taxable income?
Most likely
So they’re offering to cover the cost of the trauma therapy? Unreal.
Perhaps those that took their luggage off when evacuating should get 15K (or even zero).
The guy that took the video was placed on the no fly list for delta
Where did you see this
How did they know exactly who that was?
Don’t judge until you walk in the same shoes. What happens if their backpack was under their seat and not in the overhead and it fell on their lap as the plane flipped?
By federal law, you MUST leave it behind.
Bringing luggage slows down evacuation and can damage evacuation slides.
The slides were operational even though the doors were upside down?!
Perhaps the luggage fell out of the overhead or underfoot bin and they were making room for the ppl behind them
Agreed don’t agree with Dan’s assessment that this is criminal, we have no circumstances. Backpacks could have fallen onto someone, people sometimes sit with their backpacks etc..
It does NOT matter.
By federal law, you MUST leave all bags behind. Bringing luggage slows down evacuation and can damage evacuation slides.
So if luggage is in the way, you leave it alone? Really don’t know the circumstances inside that plane. Did some folks not follow the rules and remove their luggage on purpose? Probably. Did some bring it out due to a pile in the way? Probably.
I 100% agree with Dan.
For some reason, anytime there is an evacuation from a flight with Americans onboard, there are always those dumb idiots who feel their bag is more important then their neighbors life.
Look at the story that took place in Japan last year. Every passenger escaped, it was a flawless evacuation. Read the article attached which states that not one persons was observed holding a carryon item. This saved lives!! Every second counts, even bending down to “move” something can be the difference between life and death.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-67870119.amp
Exactly. Japan is an incredible place.
If that crash happened in the US, half the passengers would not have been able to evacuate before the plane turned into an inferno due to people trying to bring their luggage off the plane. You can see it just from the comment section here.
Sad!
I do agree with you that people should not be taking their luggage so the next sentence is not an argument, just an observation.
The crash was in Canada. Federal Law, you’re referring to would not be applicable.
Though I’m sure Canada does have something similar on the books.
Question: If someone’s wearing their backpack from beforehand, (for whatever reason) should they take it off?
I don’t think anything fell out of the overhead bins because those were now actually on the ground. But I did see reports that backpacks had fallen out from under seats (which were now hanging upside down from above), so people were picking them up to get them out of the way, otherwise they’d be tripping over them. I’m not justifying and I agree that when evacuating one should leave everything behind and just get themselves out but because the plane had flipped, in this case maybe it might have been better to get the bags out of the way? Either way, I hope this never ever happens again, very terrifying for all involved.
If quickly picking items up out of the aisle it may even speed up evacuation.
Dan is way off with the part about telling people to leave their only pair of pants behind because of an announcement on a plane. I can’t understand how someone would leave stuff behind to be honest, and if luggage was damaging the slides, heads should be rolling in the safety departments
I never comment. But this is the most selfish thing I have ever heard. Of course picking up luggage slows down the evacuation. Of course their backpacks didn’t land in their laps. Of course the lives of the people in the back of the plane matter more than your extra pants. I hope if there is ever an emergency I’m there with people like Dan and not people like you.
Maybe they had tefillin in their bags.
The Chillul Hashem/sakanas nefoshos of trying to illegally save them (and being caught on video), potentially at the cost of others’ lives due to slowing down the evacuation or damaging the evacuation slide, far outweighs saving them.
Did you consider AYLOR?
I have smicha and am comfortable making this call.
But feel free to ask and let us know what you’re told.
Is it more like basar mixed with chalav or the opposite?
Meat spoon, Dairy pot. Pareve meal. Both spoon and pot eyno ben yomo. Tomato gazpacho in the pot so cold but with onion and garlic so davar charif. Go!
If the gazpacho is cold, then charif makes no difference. Charif only makes a difference if you have charif + duchka d’sakina or charif + heat. Since you have neither here, no bliyos transferred so the gazpacho is totally fine. Even if the spoon and pot were ben yomo the gazpacho would be fine since no bliyos transferred. Same goes for spoon and pot (no hagalah necessary).
You and I know that smicha ain’t help this one bit
Uh, wrong.
Anyone with a basic knowledge of halacha knows that even a safek sakanas nefoshos takes precedence over just about everything.
Dan, When are we making it RabbiDansDeals?
You sure you still have it?
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=18806.msg2898366#msg2898366
I think it’s a kiddush Hashem tbh. People who leave all their stuff behind are liberals or weird
Leaving valuables behind was a major factor behind the evacuation of 379 people as fire engulfed the plane during the Japan Airlines crash in January 2024. Japan is the most consistently conservative country in the OECD.
HKBH spares your life, you have no idea if the upside down plane you’re evacuating from will spontaneously combust and you take your stuff? If you were in the back of the plane and saw people in front of you taking their stuff and slowing down your evacuation, your tune would change in an instant.
Dan is 100% correct. Sakanos Nefashos out weighs tefillin
Not everyone is aware that it’s illegal (I wasn’t until now) it’s not like crossing on red that everyone knows it’s illegal and makes chilul Hashem, I don’t think this would be such a chilul Hashem (unless it’s clear that you held up the evacuation etc) but yah as everyone saying, tough call in the moment…
The view that people grabbing basic stuff is ‘selfish’, to say ‘don’t be that guy’- it’s a hard sell. I actually think it’s fully justifiable in a crisis.
When your life is at risk, grabbing your most basic stuff is human instinct. It’s really easy to say what’s “right” from a safe distance, but in middle of a sudden emergency, you get a rush and the good old instincts kick in. I don’t believe that Dan would leave behind his carryon if it held his phone, food, wallet, laptop, medications and passport, after disconnecting from an upside down horror show.
I usually respect your points- but this is one is strange for Dan
1. It’s the law.
2. It’s announced repeatedly during an evacuation.
3. It’s risking others lives and the evacuation slides.
4. You will be caught on video, exposed everywhere for selfishness, and potentially prosecuted.
So, believe what you want. But if I’m ever, G-d forbid, in a plane crash, I’m leaving everything else behind.
Everything besides our lives are replaceable folks…
“everything besides our lives is replaceable” is an oversimplification. Prioritizing survival doesn’t mean abandoning all basic needs and running out with just your pants on. People won’t likely die if you grab your bag. Taking your essentials like your phone or medication isn’t selfish, it’s smart.
No, it’s illegal. And selfish. And will slow down the evacuation.
And nobody said to leave your phone for that matter. Medication or anything in your bag is replaceable.
Would you still say the same to a Type 1 diabetic grabbing his carryon that also has his insulin pump, CGM, and snacks in case of severe hypoglycemia? Because youre posting videos of people with bags that you literally have no idea what’s in them.
Ah yes, where’s my medication before the plane blows up? People are delusional.
No judgement here, but yes. Those are all replaceable.
Why wouldn’t their cgm / pump already be connected?
It is replaceable. It is literally why when EMS comes to the crash scene they will talk to you even if you look fine. If that was your situation they would take you to the hospital and get you insulin.
How in the world is your position controversial? I’m really not understanding how ppl don’t understand the need to get off asap (and if you don’t think your in danger than wait till everyone else is off to take your stuff)
I would say assess the situation if it’s slowing things down then definitely don’t grab it but if it’s literally in your face – leave it behind just because? Remember Covid vaccines and masks were also the law! Also laws aren’t going to start differentiating between who can take a bag if it’s literally in your face as it’s a slippery slope, but if someone took their bag and it literally did not slow anything down I don’t think we should go too crazy.
Agree
Well said
It’s the mindset. Not the specific scenario.
After the fact it’s easy to say nothing happened, but during evacuation we should train ourselves not to focus on anything besides lives.
What kicks in is the “selfish” instinct. I am not sure why folks would defend or explain why someone would illegally drag a bag or backpack out of the plane. Any personal items “in the way” can be pushed aside just as selfish folks would push aside others in a rush to get off. If you leave it up to a self-centered person’s “judgement,” then they would be opening up the overhead compartments to get out their blue pills (medication) and risking lives! You can live without your laptop, passport or wallet but not if you are suffocated waiting to get off a burning plane.
As per damaging the slides is not a good reason for this episode
Were there any frum ppl on the flight?
When a plane crash/lands their is usually smoke and fire involved. You never know which second the plane might blow up or explode. Every second counts, so that more passengers can get away from the danger zone of the plane.
What’s so hard to understand?? If luggage might be a hinderance, then of course it would be illegal to take it along. It might be at the expense of someone’s life!
I can’t believe people are bashing Dan like that!
In Judaism, saving lives trumps EVERYTHING ELSE! That IS the Halacha!
YES, TAKING YOUR BAG WILL LIKELY RISK SOMEONE’S LIFE. DON’T DO IT!
Under the circumstances, I can’t judge anyone who does, until I know what went through their mind, same for legal prosecution, a lot has to do with intent.
But guys, take this as a reminder to ingrain it in your mind! If you’re ever in an plane crash, don’t take anything with you! It will most likely delay the evacuation (even if only by a few seconds), and can very well cost lives.
By the power vested in me by Rabbi Yeruslavsky, I am comfortable to say, that Torah mandates your Tefillin should burn in the fire, be washed out by the fire truck, or even end up in the dumpster, if you may possibly be saving a life by doing that.
How about we skip debating taking your stuff (you can put your phone, passport, meds, whatever, in your pockets just to be sure) and focus on the fact that seatbelts LITERALLY saved their lives? And BH there were no unsecured babies on that flight. I don’t even want to think what would have happened to them in this situation cv”s.
In literally every post where I’ve advocated for buying a seat for infant and bringing carseats for them on a plane, I’ve gotten bashed for advocating for that position.
It’s refreshing to get bashed for a different position this time. 😀
Yes this was very strong point here. Always appreciate Dan stressing it, in this scenario it was really clear
Plane looked a bit tilted to the right when it landed is that typical?
No, that landing was not at all typical.
Due to the wind, it was likely angled to the right, but that should have been corrected during the flare stage, which doesn’t appear to have happened before landing.
Out of curiosity, any info on those who followed the law and left their bags behind on the plane – were they able to get those bags back yet, and if so what was the process involved and how long did it take?
Yes, you would get back all of your belongings afterward, assuming they survive.
Can you answer his question?
Any data on how long it took to retrieve back luggage.
From their website: Members of Delta’s Airport Customer Service team are working to secure, identify and sort customers’ bags that were removed from the aircraft. With a goal of preserving and returning as many items to customers as quickly and safely as possible, Delta is working with a professional service to ensure any potentially harmful fluids from the accident are thoroughly cleaned from belongings. The extensive inspection and cleaning process could mean that it’s a matter of weeks before customers are reunited with some of their bags – one of the reasons Delta continues to provide support for any needs of impacted customers.
I think it would help if a person knows would know they will get their luggage within a day or so – It’s very hard to tell someone Leave your luggage when it is it’s staring at you in the face and your pretty certain it’s not going to slow anything down if you just grab it. When you know that it may take months for you to get this luggage until they complete their investigation…
Do you have fireproof boxers?
You can’t bring luggage to the afterlife.
a bunch of selfish self preserving canadian fruitcakes
For all those who think a few seconds to grab a bag or carry on won’t make a difference, look up Aeroflot Flight 1492.
People very possibly died because others took their luggage while evacuating.
A tale of 2 planes…
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/columnist/mcgee/2019/05/07/aeroflot-crash-were-lives-lost-cost-carry-ons/1128409001/
https://www.businessinsider.com/japan-airlines-passengers-survived-because-abandoned-baggage-burning-plane-tokyo-2024-1
agreed you should not take anything I think that is basic logic (if you think about it for a second which most people don’t) but I never new it was illegal till now I just thought that they tell you to leave everything behind for the basic logical reason that of course taking your belongings will slow the evacuation process down (think about it its easier to walk any where with nothing in your hands on your back or where ever else you would put your belongings) and another point is that if you have belongings in your hand (even if you were holding them at the time of the accident) takes away the opportunity to help another person if they would need help(i.e. they’re sweater gets caught if your hands are full you cant release it for them) I think that’s the biggest reason to leave your belongings behind and the law should be the after thought.
Laws are obviously for those without the common sense.
וי מתפלל בשלומה של מלכות, שאלמלא מוראה, איש את רעהו חיים בלעו
so true
Apparently people here have lost their grip on time and physics.
The safety standard for all commercial flight is 90 seconds to evacuate.
Once a fire starts, there’s usually no more survivors. ONLY those who made it out beforehand live.
Explain to the heavenly court that even though g-d instructs ‘venishmarten’, you were wiser and HAD to take your insulin pump and tefillin and a carry on full of socks (all apparently more difficult to replace than your own life and the others you killed).
Just do is all one parting favor, stick to the back row please.
To get technical, “Illegal” and “against federal law” are the wrong terms for this. There is no law or regulation (that I could find) that specifically requires passengers to leave luggage behind. (Although it might be covered under 49 U.S.C. § 46318 – “takes any action that poses an imminent threat to the safety of… other individuals on the aircraft” which carries a civil penalty up to $35k).
Ignoring flight attendants’ specific instructions may be illegal as well.
It IS the FAA’s (and TCAA for the Canadians) safety advice, and there are regulations that it should be included in flight safety briefings
“Passengers should be reminded to leave carry-on baggage behind during an
emergency evacuation”
“Cards should inform passengers not to bring carry-on baggage to the exits.”
It’s also common sense, and should be followed regardless, to save lives.
It would be covered under 49 U.S.C. § 46504 which has legal precedent for criminal prosecution and jail time for not complying with crew member instructions.
If someone delayed evacuation intentionally to get baggage and people died from it… it seems he can definitely be criminally prosecuted.
46504 would need to prove that the crew was assaulted or intimidated, which would be a stretch of the imagination in many cases.
Additionally it only applies in “the special aircraft jurisdiction” which is defined as an “aircraft in flight”, which itself is defined as ending after “the moment when one external door is opened to allow passengers to leave”. Once that door is opened 46504 no longer applies. The exception would be if it’s considered a “forced landing”, as it’s then considered “in flight” until “competent authorities take over responsibility”.
In this specific accident it doesn’t seem clear they this would be considered a forced landing.
Just a limud zchus…
No one know what they would do if they go into shock suddenly from panic.
A recent Cautionary Tales episode on the Tenerife crash explores this in great detail.
It is possible that these people were of the exact same opinion as @Dan prior to the crash….
true no one knows what they would do if they were in in lo alanu and we cant judge but you have to think about thing before they happen. and also medication and insulin pump is a bad excuse for taking off your belongings as if you have any medical emergency there will always be ems at the crash sight pretty fast
While I 100% understand why everything should be left behind, keep some thing in mind – people in an emergency situation do not always think clearly – they panic. I was in an extremely turbulent landing, and only when I couldn’t take out my carry on bags did I realize that I was holding my toddler’s sippy cup! Please be dan l’kaf zechus whenever possible.
The right wing breaking off and bursting into flames is very with the times
Well, this was all very entertaining when I had insomnia at 2 am
Can you post a link to the video that shows people carrying luggage? I don’t see it.
As well in the “miricle on the Hudson” was anyone carrying a bag? I don’t recall
The flight made it to the destination on time, not sure what the issue is 🙂
without their ID (in their bag) were they able to return easily to the US?
Agree with Dan and poster who said put valuables in pockets for flights. I bet Dan would even leave his Hotlogic behind. Lives always come first.
If my only sheitel was in the bag , that itself would be pikuach nefesh
In our k-8 school, the kids get it over the head rather severely if they stop to get their coats during a fire drill. Train ’em early!
Never flown with infant in the US. Do they give the extra lap belts that hook on to the parents belt?
No, those are illegal in the US, the FAA found they do more harm than good.
I have been carrying my passport in one of those neck-wallets that you can put under your clothes. Excess cash and back-up credit cards as well. I think everyone, including women, should investigate this type of wallet. Being able to prove who you are, can be invaluable in bad situations.