Update: In the country’s most sweeping vaccine mandate, Mayor Bill de Blasio announced today that he will extend the vaccine mandate to cover all private employers in the 5 boroughs of NYC effective 12/27. He will also require all children ages 5 and up to have one vaccine dose in order to attend indoor entertainment, gyms, or dining and for adults to have 2 vaccine doses by 12/27.
Originally posted on 12/2:
Outgoing NYC Mayor Bill de Blasio has issued a directive that will require all 56,000 employees at the city’s 930 private schools to provide proof of their first dose of COVID-19 vaccination by December 20th.
Earlier this week a federal judge issued a preliminary injunction that put a halt to President Biden’s vaccine mandate for health care workers in 10 states. Another federal judge did the same for mandates on government contractors and subcontractors in 3 states.
I’m sure that this mandate will be challenged in court as well.
I’m all for getting vaccinated, though mandates make me uncomfortable.
I’m just surprised that the US is going down the divisive and legally questionable path of mandating vaccines by forcing people out of work, when they can just incentivize vaccines. I’m not advocating that we should be incentivizing vaccines, but isn’t that worth trying instead of telling people that they can’t hold a job unless they are vaccinated?
If the US would make the next round of $1,400 per person stimulus checks, $3,600 child credits, universal preschool, expanded earned income credits, and $12,500 electric car handouts contingent on being fully vaccinated, there would be lines wrapping around every pharmacy in the country!
What do you think about vaccine mandates?
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265 Comments On "[Mandate Extended To All Private Employers, New Requirements For Kids 5 And Up] NYC Will Require All Private School Employees To Get Vaccinated Within The Next 2 Weeks"
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Absolutely bizarre
As we keep seeing again and again those that are fully vaccinated testing positive for covid.
Mandates are absolutely pointless.
To be fair, the main point of the vaccine isn’t to stop you from testing positive, it’s to keep you out of the hospital or the morgue.
Originally it was to stop you from testing positive. Only after that failed did they change it to keeping you out of hospitals
Source? The effectiveness against several illness was always highly touted, even if the total effectiveness wasn’t perfect.
The point of a vaccine is to remove the virus from the public by denying it any hosts. However once the virus can still infect those will the vaccine, the virus can never be wiped out. So now the vaccine is more like the Flu SHOT. (They literally changed the definition of vaccine to call this a vaccine) Efficacy is about 40% after 6 months. What we need is a NEW Vacine
“to remove the virus from the public by denying it any hosts” – even in China and India and Africa?
Do you make this stuff up as you go along? The flu shot is a vaccine.
“BNT162b2 was 95% effective in preventing Covid-19”
Source:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577
Initial studies did claim protection from infection.
Source???? Every campaign was about stop the spread…. so far in Israel the majority of omicron cases are in fully vaccinated ppl and the non vaccinated have no more severe reaction……
It was for both. The virus mutated, lowering the immunity efficacy but keeping most of the protection.
That is my choice to make not the governments.
I don’t disagree.
When your choice poses a danger to the public, it’s not that simple.
My choice is not a danger to someone who has the choice of being vaccinated
Please don’t call yourself ” Gemarakop” very insulting to Gemaras!
But maybe it’s also his choice to believe he isn’t a danger to the public, just as much as it’s your choice to have the opinion that his choice poses a danger to the public.
You can have a choice to your opinions but not choice to your facts. The overwhelming majority of experts are on one side, isn’t not even close.
Do I get a choice to decide what is opinion and what’s fact?
Amazing that all of the “fact” people still didn’t figure out anything factual on antibodies.
Well, no… obviously, that’s not how facts work.
Stop justifying this madness – when the govt won’t recognize current antibodies they have 0 credibility!
I have never justified government mandates. But you can’t argue against them without having an honest and factual argument.
Ok so let’s have a factual argument
What’s the benefit of vaccinated kids?
How many kids were actually admitted to the hospital or to the morgue?
But if someone already got covid, natural immunity protection is better than a vaccine.
OK?
And if you get both you’re even more protected.
So how about wear a helmet while driving a car?
Or how about airbags and a seat belt.
We should mandate that!
It all varies by the individual though. Some Doctors say to take a numerical antibodies test, until its negative or low, no need for vaccines or booster. Their argument is that too high of an antibodies level is also bad. Take it from someone who had Covid. I didn’t have to go to the hospital until after I was already testing negative. For some, the body’s natural immune response is worse that the actual virus. Not everyone is like this – so I’m not advocating what’s good for me is also good for you.
We have to be careful when making blanket statements – “everyone should be vaccinated”. Maybe better to say “talk to your doctor and decide what’s best for you”. Yes, maybe 98% of the time that will mean getting vaccinated. But we have to care about the other 2% also.
Problem is many people won’t listen to their local doctor. They would prefer to listen to a quack they will never meet
You don’t need to be more protected.
You’re at a less than 1 percent risk of getting reinfected.
And if you do it’s usually mild or asymptomatic. It’s not at the point where you should be forced to vaccinate.
At that point you are the same” risk “to society as a vaccinated person.
The government isn’t acknowledging antibodies for some reason.
In Israel kids with antibodies were given the green pass since so many had covid without even knowing it
Till that’s acknowledge nothing they say will have credence.
Not everyone falls for the sensationalism and fear
You…. don’t know that. At all. The vaccine does pose some risks, even if they’re minimal. Someone with natural immunity that gets the vaccine could be introducing additional more risk to themself than if they had relied on their natural immunity.
I’d love to see your source for being “more protected”. Because last I checked, the CDC still does not have any data on the risk of reinfection.
Except, we do:
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s1029-Vaccination-Offers-Higher-Protection.html
That being said, while I vaccinated myself after recovery, I have not yet done so with my kids, as my risk profile is clearly different than theirs.
Dan, this is the text from the link you posted with antibodies vs vaccine data. All the way at the end of the article do they tell you what they’re comparing.
“The study looked at data from the VISION Network that showed among adults hospitalized with symptoms similar to COVID-19, unvaccinated people with prior infection within 3-6 months were 5.49 times more likely to have laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 than those who were fully vaccinated within 3-6 months with mRNA (Pfizer or Moderna) COVID-19 vaccines.”
Something is very weird the way they are comparing data. Why can’t they simply compare covid 19 hospitalizations between vaccinated individuals to individuals with prior infections.
Also this report did not look at all at antibody levels. Many people with compromised immune systems might get it twice becuase they dont gwt antibodies
If you read that study it’s quite laughable. Essentially their saying that 1000 previously infected went to hospital with covid-like symptoms and 90 tested positive meaning 9 out of 100. Vs 6000 vaccinated who went to hospital with covid-like symptoms and 325 tested positive meaning 5 out of 100 = vaccines protect more than natural immunity.
The problem with this study is you don’t have a baseline as to exactly why their coming in to hospital and the severity of symptoms.
Or another simple simple bias that exists for people who’ve had covid previously. Is that they are less likely to go to hospital for non covid related events thinking that it’s covid being that they’ve already experienced the symptoms. Ergo a higher positive ration of patients.
Or a bias as to the personality of a unvaccinated person who is likely a more carefree individual willing to risk not going to the hospital. Therefore a higher proportion of covid cases because the only ones that actually went were the ones who’ve experienced it before
And if you get the vaccine twice you’re even more protected.
And if you het a booster every month your even more protected.
Oh while we’re at, get a smaller dose of booster every week and 2 face masks and 12 feet distance is even better.
Point is – government shouldn’t mandate, especially for those that have active antibodies.
Sounds like we agree on the “point” as I said in the post.
Personally I recovered and got vaccinated twice, but didn’t get a booster and don’t wear a face mask unless it’s required, but I agree, to each their own.
Except that there are too many factors to account for with natural immunity. The immunity from the vaccines has been, and continues to be, closed studied. The boosters and caused by the waning protection is a great example of that. Because we have such a large sample size, we can accuracy predict the immunity of the population. We can’t do that with natural immunity because not everyone started out on a level playing field, like they (generally) do with the vaccine.
Except that I scientific study (and there are dozens…including one from the Cleveland clinic) shows that natural immunity is at least as good, if not superior, to vaccine immunity. In fact one of the most recent and largest studies came out of Israel, looking at real data, and found that those who were previously infected were 13 times less likely to become in felted with delta and 27 times less likely to get a symptomatic infection from delta than those double vaxxed with Pfizer. If you are not aware, Israel and many other countries around the world consider natural immunity exactly the same as vaccine immunity as dlfar as travel, school AND green passports. Also, as farms mandates go, they make no logical sense. Yes the vaccines will hopefully keep you out of the hospital, so u should get it to protect yourself if you are concerned. But even the cdc admits that vaccinated and unvaccinared carry and transmit the same viral load.
It isn’t a question of whether or not natural immunity is *as* good as vaccine immunity, it is a question of making policy around it. There are too many variables. If someone can show antibodies, I’m all for them to not be vaccinated (even though I think they should), the issue is actually making policy around that. Can you imagine how outraged people would be if it was a vaccine or a blood test to check for antibodies? “hOW DaRe YoU foRCE mE to GiVE mY BoOld???”
That’s what they started saying after it was proven not to be effective. We have herd immunity. It’s all about control and maybe much worse!your health is the last thing they care about…
What exactly is gained from this control? And what is the “much worse” option?
To keep you out of the hospital
And morgue? For young people you will say this with a straight face?
Tell that to my otherwise healthy 39 year old friend Yudi Dukes, A”H or to my 34 year old friend Mickey Goldstein, who spend a month in the ICU and still can’t hear well.
You don’t think they would have liked the opportunity to get vaccinated?
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/news-roundup/3-10-21-news-roundup-vaccinations-yudi-dukes-mandalorian-0-mortgages-shomer-shabbat-airlines-frontier-near-miss-cats-plane/#BDE_Rabbi_Yudi_Dukes
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/coronavirus/welcome-home-michael-goldsmith/
Is it rare among young people? Yes.
Should you get vaccinated? Of course.
Should it be mandated? I think that if it’s come to that being needed, I’d much rather a carrot approach be attempted.
Those are from when the hospitals did not understand covid nor how to treat it.
Everything is from G-d, but from a purely natural perspective they probably would have survived if they got it now… But again, ultimately everything is from G-d and we can’t question his ways
And yet, tens of thousands of Americans are dying of COVID monthly.
Hishtadlus is for adults to get vaccinated.
In the cleavland clinic they refused to give monoclect. Whatever their called that el presidente touted today.
What about the numerous people who have had serious adverse reactions and/or death not long after taking the vaccine. Now I know you will write, “source” but these don’t make it to the news.
They simply aren’t true.
So you just want to make up stories and claim them as evidence?
Not really. The govt shouldn’t protect people from themselves. The only justification for a mandate would be to protect others and that fails because of the above and because of the fact that if someone wants to protect themselves from unvaccinated they can just get vaxxed themselves.
Never justified a mandate nor am I a fan of them.
I was responding to your statement that “To be fair, the main point of the vaccine isn’t to stop you from testing positive, it’s to keep you out of the hospital or the morgue.” that is clearly not the point of the mandates or at lease shouldn’t be.
Thank you Dan!….hate the ignorance!
Kol hakovid! Great hishtadlus to save lives!!
Sadly some of the Brooklyn yeshivot don’t abide by any vaccine requirements for kids, don’t imagine this will be much regarded
They don’t abide by mask mandates so why would they abide by vax mandates
….and fortunately they don’t have any higher rate of Covid than anyone else…..
You hit it on the head. I know people got drs to make up vaccinations. Sure they can lie about this also. Poison in our body?
Gosh millions are vaxxed and alive. Get the vaccine and find any way to protest.
Um, #1, check you data
#2, these yeshivos are open without any covid issues for the past 18 months, while the entire world is on a roller coaster, and Cuomo tried to get the news to stop them, which is now coming out that he was targeting the frum areas. Why requite vaccine mandates now? In the name of science? Not really!
But 1000%, the freebies have to be tied to vaccines. If the govt is good enough to hand you freebieeS, they’re good enough to add qualifiers
Makes sense. But there is a lot of other places they can start. Like every person living in subsidized housing should test for substance abuse once a month. Every illegal immigrant getting a payment from the settlement should pass an English language test. And so forth. Doesn’t have to start with forcing vaccines and not accepting proof of immunity
I like this. Well said
I keep making the same point since they started the mandates. You catch more bees with honey…
Why doesn’t the government get this?
Control??
You can control by positive means as well
Alzheimer’s?
Which one are we now?
These people are hellbent on destroying our country, and will stop at nothing
Agreed re: those Demoncrats
Couldn’t agree more. This is one the Fuhrer’s parting gifts. He also just made Places in NYC for druggies to take their drugs w/o getting arrested.
He took a city that had been cleaned up by the previous 2 mayors and put in the dumpster.
This mayor is one of the worst things that happened to NYC.
and let none be fooled, this mayor is an anti-Semite and this decision is almost for sure made for the JEWS ( like is special covid enforcement during the peak of the pandemic)
I take offense to your post. My grandfather survived the Holocaust. You should be ashamed comparing the mayor of NYC to hitler for imposing a health mandate which you may disagree with. As far as the “special covid enforcement”, it wouldn’t have been necessary if there if there was more mask compliance and no superspreader events in those communities while many people were getting sick and dying.
You think it was done out of necessity? Even the the X-governor admitted it was arbitrary
How is this “destroying our country”, exactly?
“Earlier this week a federal judge issued a preliminary injection..”
Did you mean injunction?
I think the vaccine is getting to you..
LOL 😀
In case anyone thinks otherwise, my previous comment was written in good spirit
Leaving the merits of the policy decision aside, the arguments for why the federal government might not be able to mandate vaccination are not applicable to states and cities. As a matter of federal law, states (and subdivisions) clearly are not prevented by the federal constitution from mandating vaccines. Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 US 11 (1905). That is because states have general police power, while the federal government is one of limited powers. So I wouldn’t call this legally questionable unless you have a New York-law reason for that assertion.
You just need to get it delayed 2 weeks. I don’t think Eric Adams will do this.
Chances are Eric asked him to do it so that he is spared the dirty work
+100
Doesn’t seem to sit with me, after all the treatments they have nowadays why are they forcing us? There’s no other sickness where a person shows antibodies and they anyways have to vaccinate.
I was among the first to get vaccinated back last Jan., and am grateful for the availibility of a vaccine. Should be offered to anyone who wants it. However, besides the disinformation about COVID and the vaccines, and the lack of honesty about what all these mandates (vaccines, masks, quarantine) actually accomplish, the idea of government dictating – under threat of fines, job loss, etc. – medical treatments is frightening. Trusting these self-serving bureaucrats with our (and our childrens’ lives) is outright dangerous, and will certainly lead to more and more tyranny over individual rights. For those that are comfortable with government dictating everything, I believe there are fantastic real estate opportunities in Beijing.
+1
+1
+1!
It sounds like you’re suggesting that the mandates are trying to accomplish something other than increasing public safety… what else do you think is the “real” intention? Do you think it’s just for the fun of it?
I don’t think the average person thinks there is a deeper desire.
They’re saying that if the govt forces something in an area like this it could lead to more and more instances of the govt forcing something for what they consider the benefit of many, even though it’s quite controversial.
This could be in areas of health, mental health, religion, finances etc etc.
So many people see it as some kind of threat to their freedom.
Sam, why do you care if a perfect stranger is vaccinated? As proven it’s not eliminating the virus. If anything it’s preventing serious illness only to the vaccinated person. So why shouldn’t it be up to the individual?
Because unmitigated spread is a public health concern. Viruses mutate when infection occurs so each case is another chance for a more severe or vaccine evading variant to emerge. Same reason why kids to be vaccinated too.
It is up to the individual but if they aren’t willing to participate in public health, they can’t do somethings… like work in a school or get on a plane. Personal choice doesn’t mean there are no consequences for those personal choices.
+1000!
+1
Spot on! Couldn’t have said it better.
Dan, I think making tax credits contingent on being vaccinated is just as legally questionable as making a vax mandate. I personally feel it’s ethically wrong as well. I agree with you as far being for making incentives. You can hand out money to them. Of course this isn’t “fair” to those that got vaxxed earlier but NYC is already doing this. If I end up vaxing my kids I will drive into NYC to get the $100 🙂
If they want to give incentive for your readers just give 10k points for the points program of your choice l!
It may be questionable, but likely not as much as forcing private employees to fire unvaccinated employees.
And I prefer the carrot to the stick approach.
You have to be a nyc resident to get the $100
It will cost you $100 on gas, tolls and parking to get to and out of nyc
More.
Really? I thought they give it to illegal immigrants?
Have to be a NYS resident
Tell them your illegal.
Incentivizing it like you described is just as bad as a mandate. That is basically like saying that they will cause inflation by handing out money and if you do not do as they say your money will become worthless. This is worse then a mandate in my books as there is no option to not comply whereas in this case you can switch jobs.
They gave and will be giving those out anyway, so the inflation is already baked in.
I just think the carrot approach will be more effective than the stick approach.
IMHO the most effective approach would have been to just tell everyone “speak to your doctor” and everyone will have gotten personalized advice from someone they trust instead of blanket rules that make no sense from politicians that no one trusts.
Mandates are a terrible idea and will backfire. Not surprised that they don’t get it. So far, most of their Covid policies have been illogical so this is just more of the same.
Carrot > Stick
You missed this injunction which applies nationwide except in the states that it was already blocked
I am totally against mandates, I don not want a government powerful enough to force me to inject what it deems to be healthful, and I say this even though I am in favor of getting the vaccine.
Secondly I think it is ridiculous that the ones who were on the so called “front lines” just over a year ago when there were no vaccines and were the “heroes”, now have to choose between a job and jab.
They are heroes – but that doesn’t mean they can place HOSPITAL patients in danger.
Vaccinated people can spread the virus as well. Why are they putting them in danger by not being vaccinated?
Vaccinated people are far less likely to contract COVID and are far less likely to spread it to others. The vaccine is extremely protective even if it is not 100% protective. That’s why it’s not the only form of protection used in hospitals. (Masks are another form of protection used in hospitals. Again, not 100% protective. But combine masks and vaccination and we’re a lot closer to 100%.)
Drivers who stop for red lights can still get into crashes. Does that mean that drivers shouldn’t bother ever stopping for red lights?
Very good comparison. Didn’t know we had such smart people here.
-100
Disclosure I am fully vaxxed, primarily just so we could travel. But I am disappointed in EY, and now the EU going to a limited time validity of a vaccine shots.
I’m not anti-vaxx but I am anti-mandate.
Especially when they deny long standing science of natural immunity from recovering from infection (no profit in tracking the natural immunity).
The other issue is it still medical procedure, and informed consent.
I also don’t want my tax dollars being used to enrich Pharmaceutical companies, lobbyist and politicians.
Will it become a mandatory annual booster ?
Viruses tend to move toward more infectious and less lethality as it’s about surival and replication.
Our government doesn’t have the best track record with honesty, with medical and health.
We have to many GRAS items that are outlawed in most other countries the US turns a blind eye to please lobbyist or industries.
I am concerned as what is also lacking is years of observation of the effects of exposure to mRNA vax’s. They destroyed the double blind control group by vaccinating everyone, and they want a 55 year to release all research, why?
The Government said Round-up was safe but 30+ years post exposure and internal documents show that glycophosphate was not safe for humans. I digress.
Yeah, sounds pretty anti-vax to me.
Being concerned about the long term effects of a vaccine indicates your misunderstanding of how vaccines actually work. It is not a medication which affects your physiology. After about 2 weeks, it is gone. there is nothing “long term” to study. NO vaccine has longer term studies for this reason.
Except that this is not a vaccine. This is an mRNA treatment that stimulates your body to produce proteins that your immune system then attacks. The trial documentation and the VAERS reporting data show significant autoimmune, pulmonary, cardiac, and other severe reactions that occur well beyond 2 weeks and in numerous instances have caused death.
In fact, if someone dies within 2 weeks of receiving the mRNA treatment and tests positive for COVID, it is classified as a COVID death.
What we have a fundamental failure to assess actual risk. This is not Ebola or hemorrhagic fever.
For many healthy younger people, COVID is asymptomatic or nothing more than a mild cold-like illness that lasted a few days.
For the vast majority of the population, there is little risk of severe illness, which is generally limited to those over 70, the obese, or those with comorbidities.
Over 94% of those who died WITH COVID fell into one of these three categories. Collin Powell is an example of this. The news said that he died of COVID. He had stage 4 cancer and Parkinson’s, was overweight, was 20 years older than the life expectancy of an African American man, and had also tested positive for COVID. And he was vaccinated. Even with an autopsy, can we really say that COVID killed him?
Italy just revised its COVID death statistics down by 97% to reflect only those that died FROM COVID, rather than WITH COVID.
For healthy people under 70, contracting COVID has an approximately .2% morbidity. This number goes down materially with prompt medical care. We now have treatment protocols other than telling people to stay home until they need to go to the emergency room to get hooked up to a ventilator and then die.
The number of people that are documented as having died from the mRNA treatments is more than all other vaccines combined. And this is only the short term and clearly documented reactions. A 2007 Harvard study projected that well less than 10% of adverse vaccine reactions are reported, and this was before the reporting mechanism was made more burdensome and we decided that the safety and efficacy of the mRNA treatment is not open to debate.
Normally, healthcare decisions are made by the individual in consultation with the person’s doctor. It is irresponsible for anyone to recommend otherwise except in a true public health emergency (Ebola or hemorrhagic fever), which this isn’t. For most people, testing is required to determine if they even have COVID.
Remember, we were told that everyone in Sweden, India, Louisiana, Florida, Texas, Williamsburg, Monsey, New Square, and Africa was going to die without social distancing, masks, and vaccines.
This didn’t happen and no reassessment of the analysis was made.
Maybe, just maybe, our public health experts, including Biden, Cuomo, Murphy, and De Blasio, don’t know as much as they they claim they know. None of them is a virologist and none of them will admit that the scientific method doesn’t work when you stop all inquiry and censor debate. Like sending COVID sick people into nursing homes to clear out hospital beds, maybe the first visceral reaction isn’t the best course of action.
People get sick and died, and that is a terrible thing. But killing healthy children and young adults to try to reduce the risk for those over 70, obese, or with comorbidities doesn’t feel right to me. And these are just the short term reactions. It took 4 years for the Thalidomide side effects to manifest themselves.
We know that the mRNA treatment doesn’t stop infection or transmission, as demonstrated by the fact that the most vaccinated countries have the highest infection rates.
We also know that the mRNA treatment suppresses natural immune system response, killer T cells.
We also know that the mRNA treatment significantly raises the risk of cardiac incidents: https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712
I stopped reading your book after the first paragraph.
mRNA vaccines are vaccines.
VAERS isn’t what you claim it to be. https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/dataguide.html
I think the problem is that you stopped reading it after the first paragraph. Keep on reading and you will see what he is referring to
+100
I read a few more sentences. Lies; half-lies; misrepresentations; fake news. Since no links were provided, I will disregard them all.
I did skip ahead to the final statement, which came with a link to an actual reliable medical journal – the Journal of the American Heart Association. And, look at that: a statement of concern:
“Soon after publication of the above abstract in Circulation, it was brought to the American Heart Association Committee on Scientific Sessions Program’s attention that there are potential errors in the abstract. Specifically, there are several typographical errors, there is no data in the abstract regarding myocardial T-cell infiltration, there are no statistical analyses for significance provided, and the author is not clear that only anecdotal data was used.
We are publishing this Expression of Concern until a suitable correction is published to indicate that the abstract in its current version may not be reliable.”
So, more lying liars offering fake news. You will have to answer in Shamayim after 120 years for all the people who believed your posts and acted accordingly.
They are only vaccines once the definition was changed: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article254111268.html
And as for VAERS underreporting, here is the study:https://digital.ahrq.gov/sites/default/files/docs/publication/r18hs017045-lazarus-final-report-2011.pdf
Well said very well researched. We need more well informed people like you.
Too many of the loudest voices are the least informed.
Well, despite the “Expression of Concern” on the abstract – which renders the data highly suspect – it’s a meaningless finding. It’s true that inflammation markers may spike after vaccination – but they return to baseline after a few months. The PULS test – https://pulstest.com/physicians/faq – is a ‘point in time’ test – it simply uses a mathematical formula to estimate your five-year risk assuming your current readings continue for the next five years. When your readings return to baseline (which could be up to six months, I’m told), the PULS test can be applied again and the five-year risk will likewise return to baseline. There’s no reason to assume a transient spike in inflammation markers will cause *any* long-term damage to an otherwise healthy person. If you have heart issues, of course, you should consult with your personal physician – who might well advise you to avoid the shot. Or not.
According to scientists, who published their findings in the journal Advances, a protein in the blood is attracted to certain ingredients in the vaccine. This phenomenon can kick off a chain reaction involving the immune system that sometimes culminates with the production of dangerous blood clots:
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abl8213
This is referring to the AstraZeneca vaccine, not the mRNA one.
The odds of getting a blood clot from this vaccine is 0.000025% (2.5 per 100,000 doses).
The risk of blood clot from COVID-19 is 8-9 times that number.
The vector vaccine operates using a similar mechanic of stimulating your body to produce proteins that your immune system then attacks. (This poses autoimmune risks for everyone, especially those with autoimmune disorders.)
As for the cardiac and clotting vaccine risks, in addition to the American Heart Association study cited above (https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712), there is a new Japanese study focusing on both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20211204_12/
One other point we should note, and it is really the elephant in the room.
We should be evaluating the increase in relative risk of fatal adverse reactions as we do the effectiveness on a relative basis. While the increased risks are admittedly very small in the absolute, the increased risk is on a relative basis very, very high.
The very high effectiveness of the vaccines (for the limited period of time that they are effective) has always been presented as a relative effectiveness. What this means is if your risk of death from COVID is .2% and the vaccine reduces it to .1%, it is 50% effective.
However, when the adverse reactions are presented, they are always presented in absolute risk terms rather than in relative terms – which would show that one’s risk of a clot, heart attack, or stroke may be several times higher as a result of the vaccine.
While they have similarities, they are not the same. Even the side-effects are different. You can’t combine blood clots and myocarditis into one lump side-effect as they apply to different vaccines. They are real; but they are also incredibly rare.
Anaphylaxis happens at a rate of one in every million doses of the MMR vaccine. It is a rare side effect but well worth the risk.
We measure vaccine effectiveness based relatively because its impossible to measure it any other way. I don’t know where you got that we measure adverse reactions in only absolute terms – the only reason we know about the serious side-effects *is* because we measure the reactions relative to the unvaccinated population.
Blood clots happen to people who aren’t vaccinated, as does myocarditis. Because we know the general baseline of these medical conditions in the population, a statistical increase in the number of people who get this issue in the vaccinated group would indicate that the vaccine contributed to it. This approach is incredibly accurate! This is how we get the number of 2.5 per 100,000. It is an increase of 2.5, not a total of 2.5. It’s relative to the control, not simply an absolute.
And death from COVID for those under 70, that are of normal weight, and without comorbidities is also incredibly rare.
As the subject’s age drops, so does the risk especially with medical treatment.
Like most medical decisions, there is a risk benefit analysis that each patient should undertake in consultation with his or her physician: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8437699/
And all of this assumes that the vaccines have long term efficacy, which we are learning may not be the case, and no other slow to manifest side effects.
You said that: “For healthy people under 70, contracting COVID has an approximately .2% morbidity”. If that is incredibly rare, what is 0.000025% rate for blood clots? If you take a million people, I’m not sure how anyone can pick the side of COVID.
Comparing death to a serious side effect is rather silly as well, as they are not the same. Regardless, when it comes to deaths, even in the >65 age group, 90% are attributed to unvaccinated people. For the 18-64 range, 96% of. the mortalities are the unvaccinated.
The hospitalizations are almost the same. Being hospitalized isn’t exactly a picnic and can have long term effects. In fact, the 18–49 age group are hospitalized at a higher rate, in terms of absolute numbers, than any other age group, with 97% of them being unvaccinated. The numbers are insane. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e1.htm
The CDC policies and directives assume that all who have COVID were diagnosed, that all who died with COVID died from COVID, that only those who are vaccinated have immunity, and that the vaccines prevent transmission and serious illness. We know that none of these assumptions is true.
We are two years into this pandemic, with our Surgeon General recommending holiday meals with open windows, indoor mask mandates, and triple vaccination. Israel is considering a second booster and is entering its fifth wave of COVID.
Do some research, talk to your doctor, consider the track record of the NIH, FDA, and big pharma, look at what countries are doing well and what aren’t relative to their mask ad vaccine policies, do some critical thinking, exercise your right do what you think is right for yourself and your family, and respect the rights of others to do the same.
I am finished responding to this thread.
Dan, thank you for your indulgence and for all that you do.
The vaccines *help* prevent transmission and serious illness – and death too.
We are still in the pandemic because a large percentage of the population doesn’t believe they need to do anything about it. You can’t complain that this is still going on without putting in the effort to end it.
The only part of your advice I agree with is to talk to your doctor. That is it. The idea that people believe they are qualified to do their own “research” (googling is not research) on this is narcissistic, at best. You don’t have people deciding that they don’t need a lawyer because they did their own research. The US government even helps you get one if you can’t afford it because it is so obviously not fair if you show up to court without a lawyer!
Not surprised but not a single counterpoint 😉
Sam, you seem to be very well informed on this complex subject. Could you please explain how you did your research so that I don’t fall into the misinformation trap that googling could lead me into? I have talked to my doctor, as well a pharmacist friend and a surgeon but none of them are willing to say anything other than what their corporate employers told them to say. I would like to believe in our government officials as you do but would also like verify what we are being told. There have been rare occasions in the past that they have not been fully transparent with us, so it seems wise to double check.
@Richard
Yes. Everything you just said is fact and without emotion. Well done and spot on.
+1
+100
I think it’s time for the government to start focusing on medication for the virus rather then pushing the vaccine. this virus is here to stay
Like HQ.
My family of 9 and I have had documented Covid 3 times.
March 2020
December 2020
October 2021
All three times we took:
zinc 50
Quercetin 1500
Vit C 3000
Vit D 3000
Had symptoms less than 4 days and didn’t need hospital. In fact, NOT going to hospital probably saved my parents lives (67 & 73 both with major comorbidities like diabetes, obesity, HBP, epilepsy, lupus and colon cancer) and they were in bed the longest at 3 days.
The caregiver was vaccinated and bolstered and also tested positive. She had covid the worst. She wanted to go to hospital and ended up asking us for our treatment instead. She was fine the following day.
Science is being ignored all over the world.
+100
that’s not science, that’s anecdotal evidence. Most people who get Covid get better without any treatment, so you have proved exactly nothing.
Keep putting your head in the sand!
There are loads of people that were saved from going into a hospital because they started taking Zelenko’s protocol
“There are loads of people that were saved from going into a hospital after they started taking Zelenko’s protocol because baruch Hashem most people who get covid don’t end up in the hospital no matter what they took or didn’t take.”
There. Fixed that for you. Be well.
I’m struggling to see how your anecdotes that covid is often a mild illness is in anyway comparable to clinical data from thousands of patients. Your regimen works because you all would have gotten better anyway. None of you had an oxygen requirement or acute respiratory failure so ya the hospitals would not have admitted you.
The point still stands covid is often a mild illness with a self limiting course. Depending on the variant and age risk for morbidity and mortality is anywhere between 1 and 50 percent. Taking a vaccine reduces risk of serious covid Ie covid infection so bad that you can’t transfer oxygen from the air into your blood as well as all the other systemic manifestations (strokes, myocarditis, pulmonary embolism, renal failure). Taking a vaccine comes with a small risk of side effects that is overwhelmingly outweighed in reduction in those same serious covid side effects without evidence of any increased move side effects.
The vaccines were tested with hospitalization and death as the modifiable variables not only testing positive. There was no goal post moving but media latched on to more impressive positive testing numbers. Despite vaccinated individuals still getting covid this occurs less frequently and more pauci- symptomatically. They also have decreased viral counts and lower rates of transmission. In areas with increased rates of vaccination lower rates of death and transmission occur even accounting for “side effects”. This reduces the chance of formation of dangerous variants as well as permits individuals who are immunocompromised in whom vaccines are less effective to rejoin society.
Vaccine mandates unfortunately work because education has failed but make no mistake that the underlying problem is one of communication. I agree w/ you Dan. Incentives work better and if someone wants to take part in the social contract and get benefits from the tax payer then they should step up to lower risk to population health. While israel hasn’t returned back to complete normal they are much closer than other places and we should strive to get to their level of success
Incentivizing only vaccinated people won’t pass Senate and Congress in my opinion, and if it would pass it would also be challenged in court.
Has the President tried? I bet it could find some support on both sides of the aisle vs an employment mandate.
And it will be challenged in court either way. The OH $5M lottery for the vaxxed was challenged and OH won.
Everyone should get vaccinated. You do have a choice to get vaccinated or not. But if you don’t, the govt has the right to say to keep your Butts home. And guess what, I agree! I don’t want to sit next to someone in shul whose not vaccinated. I don’t want an unvaccinated teacher in the same small class room as my children. You have a right to choose not to take it, but we have the right and imo the obligation to make your life difficult since you don’t give a crap about others
Btw. I am a proud republican and anti liberals and most democrats. But I have my own opinion as I stated above about the vaccines
What about the teachers that taught last September when there was no vaccine available? They risked their health for your kids! And what about all the front line workers who worked during the height of the pandemic? They also risked their lives for you. Shame on your for not recognizing their heroic actions
If you’re vaccinated aren’t you protected? Why do you care so much about the person next to you? At this point children ages 5 & up are able to receive the vaccine, so go for it and be “protected”, don’t worry about your neighbor or your child’s teacher. They all can worry for themselves.
Yes, I’m vaccinated my 10 year old and 12 year old is as well. Why do I care if we are vaxxed and others aren’t?! Simple! It’s not 100% protection. 1.5/10 still seem to get it. Yes symptoms are much less, but any chance it. And how about the small population who absolutely can not get the vaccine bc of certain health issues. Bc your selfish to get it, they are compromised.
Vaccinated people pass on the the virus just as much as the unvaccinated. i assume you mean you do not want to risk passing on the virus to someone unvaxxed, which is certainly understandable.
Yeah but you’re missed two key points here. Vaccinated people are less likely to get infected in the first place and even when they are infected, they are infectious for a much shorter amount of time. So yes, when they do get infected and are infectious, they carry the same viral load as an unvaccinated person, but being vaccinated. still help control the spread of the virus.
But didn’t you get vaccinated so you won’t catch the virus?? We obviously both agree that the vaccine doesn’t work, you just think you’re a better Jew for taking it and I think I’m a better Jew for not!
Not sure how you can be a “better” Jew. The majority of the rabbanim came out and said you should get vaxxed.
The other ones didn’t come out in public.,.
Maybe you stay home and keep your kids home, it’s your choice, and don’t enforce it on me.
@JB In that case you should be prepared to home school your children.
Why are you worried if YOU are vaccinated?
I disagree! They haven’t made any medical exemptions. For example, in my case my neurologist who has been treating me these last 4 years for a chronic debilitating condition has told me to hold off for now. We are weighing the risks benefits and for now the risks still outweigh the benefits.
They are using a one size fits all hand when it is anything but! I am not at all opposed to vaccines at all. My husband got the Covid vaccine to protect me and my child is up to date with his.
Each persons medical story is unique and should be treated as such.
Mandates are the refuge of those who have shattered their credibility into a million little pieces. That’s what you get for your short-term expediency, Democrats.
If the unvaccinated are still allowed to pay taxes to the IRS then I personally believe that the unvaccinated should be able to benefit from our stimulus checks and tax credits. Anyone that wants to be vaccinated has most definitely had the ability to do so at this point. If we don’t have control over what we do with our bodies what control and freedoms do we really have?
The only way to get through this is not to comply period, with any of this. No carrot no stick, it’s non of any bodies business whether someone chooses to be a part of this experiment or not.
+200
All kidding aside this has nothing to do with science it’s that deblasio is leaving his office soon and wants to go out on a high note or give some more issues to Eric adams to deal with because we know Adams already said he will revisit the mandate against police and fire crew etc. Even the strictest country like Israel doesn’t require it and accepts natural immunity and issues a green pass etc. It’s not for our health at all it’s for political reasons that’s all welcome to natzi Germany aka NYC LETS GO BRANDON
And he seriously wants to run for Governor, passing such a bill a few days before leaving office…..
The vaccine saves lives. Mandates save lives. If you won’t do it for yourself, do it for all those around you. Try and put your political views to the side.
Vaccines save lives, agreed.
Mandates save lives, agreed. But at what cost? China also saved even more lives in Wuhan by physically locking everyone in their homes with no escape route. Is that an acceptable cost? Where do you draw the line on where freedom ends and public good begins?
Politics aside, do you disagree that the carrot approach I suggest in the post would be far more effective and less divisive than the stick approach of this admin?
If the carrot approach works, I support it 100%. I support it 100% just to try it. Anything within reason I support to get more people vaccinated. Just a note on politics. How is a mandate politically motivated? The mandates hurt the current admin politically. If it was based on politics, he would not do it.
Mandates are clearly popular with his base and he’ll need their support to get another 4 years.
You avoided my other question 🙂
If by his base you mean the 30% nutcases (both sides have this) that support him no matter what, IMHO don’t matter. Other question was at what cost (freedom)? The current cost is worth the benefit.
Mandates save life’s???
It didn’t work for the last two yrs
Boro park opened up back to normal in may of 2020
Since then how many people died from COVID in BP?
I know there were deaths but nothing different then the whole world
Mandates don’t work!
Erm, what vaccine mandates were there for the past 2 years?
Can you show any proof that vaccines save lives? Is there any? The virus basically reached herd immunity in our community and almost nounvex people are seriously sick . Who can prove the vaccine works? They already reduced it to like 60% effective and it keeps on going down. They were also forced to admit it doesn’t prevent transmission and needed to change the medical meaning of vaccine…why not wait a little longer to see clearly what it’s all about?
Of course, just look at Israel’s covid dashboard!
https://datadashboard.health.gov.il/COVID-19/general?utm_source=go.gov.il&utm_medium=referral
Dan, you should know better than attempting to have him look at legitimate sources. It needs it be a WhatsApp link to a Facebook post said in the name of an unnamed specialist.
Honestly, if you’re asking such a question, you’re living in an alternate reality.
israel changed the definition and considers someone with 2 vaccines unvaccinated (and now even 3 vaccines is unvaccinated)
Seriously dude? Polio, non existent bc of vaccine. Rubella. Heck, mumps measles chicken pox, when was the last time you heard of a break out.
Funny how all of the sudden people are up in arms. It’s been mandated for healthcare workers for several months now here in NY. Yes, the same people that were on the front line the entire time through the heart of covid, literally dealing with the worse situations (sorry to insult you mailpeople and grocery stocker ‘heroes’) and all of the sudden they are being forced to decide between getting the shot and putting food on the table.
As an aside, I’m very pro vaccine and already got the booster. I just hate how they criminalize people who don’t want to get it for whatever reason.
Unfortunately, vaccine mandates might be the only option at this point. They are a last resort. Whether you agree with them or not they are generally effective. We have always had pediatric vaccine mandates in schools. There is no reason why private schools should be held to a different standard. Reb Chaim Kanievsky has said that any teache who is unwilling to get the vaccine should not be allowed to teach. He has also instructed the general public including children (5-11) to get the vaccine. The question is why not just ignore the fact that they are being mandated and just do the right thing and get the vaccine to protect ourselves and our community.
100% this.
Just curious, did you personally hear R’ Chaim Kanievsky say the above? Or did you hear from someone, who heard from someone, who heard from someone else, that R’ Chaim Kanievsky said all this? Or, maybe you watched a holy YouTube video, where you can actually see R’ Chaim Kanievsky being questioned, and he answers the above? Of course YouTube videos are toiras moishe mi’sinai that can’t be doctored or edited, because it’s the holy bible.
Wow. The problem for you is that you can’t accept that R’ Chaim Kanievsky said it because it would leave you in a very uncomfortable position. Instead, you’ll go through any length to come up with an alternative reality so you won’t have to accept the actual truth.
My body my choice that has worked for abortions and sex changes why can’t that work now
Because the overwhelming majority that believe my choice for vaccines do not believe it for abortion. Can you say hypocrites?
You have no personal right to run a stop sign and put others in danger. Likewise, you have no personal right to put the community in danger by not vaccinating. No vaccine is perfect but they work to reduce spread.
But who says that’s “likewise”?
I think science has not shown any danger by others not vaccinating. YOU vaccinate for YOURSELF. Other vaccinate for themselves. The virus still spreads between fully vaxxed individuals, the vaccine does not protect you from not getting OR SPREADING the virus, rather it protects you after you have received all 3 doses of not getting symptoms or going to the hospital or worse.
I am provaccine, but anti mandate, especially when the CEOs for the Vaccine companies raking in HUNDREDS of BILLIONS of dollars in profits, and calling those who spread misinformation about vaccines “criminals”. Something doesn’t add up.
You can’t compare my arm to the right of driving a car
You body your choice as long as you keep your body at home. Thanks.
That sounds pretty authoritarian.
This applies to NYC only, not NY state, the image you used for this article had me confused for a moment.
legal!?!
Well, killing all unvaccinated people Whether you agree with them or not they are generally effective. They are the last resort. Maybe just kill anyone with a cough, why not? its effective!
Right – because this is exactly like killing people. “VoiceOfReason”
Every person that has any moral compass knows there are certain lines that should not be crossed, even when it is 100% EFFECTIVE in getting you to the desired objective, and even if it’s a good end.
Remember, the end doesn’t always justify the means.
IF this would be a vaccine like any other vaccine that you can’t get the disease after getting vaccinated a mandate may have made sense (after full FDA approval) here with a vaccine that does not prevent the spread of the disease, what is a mandate going to accomplish?
It isn’t perfect but it *does* help prevent the spread of the disease. Not all vaccines are perfect, it’s just that everyone gets them, making the underlaying diseases much less prevalent.
Look at the DTaP vaccine, after multiple shots, they are 80%-90% effective. You also need boosters every 10 years. It doesn’t have to be perfect for it to be a very good idea to get it.
Does the Mayor have the legal power to enforce this in his final 3 weeks in office? Ultimately the decision will have to be made by Eric Adams, our next Mayor. Does this mandate have to be approved by the City Council? Is any bridge DeBlasio has not burned behind him? At this point just about every resident of NYC hates the Mayor for one reason or other.
Common denominator between vaccinated in the unvaccinated?
Both are not fully vaccinated!!
In good spirit
I agree wiht “I’m just surprised that the US is going down the divisive and legally questionable path of mandating vaccines by forcing people out of work, when they can just incentivize vaccines.” but with a slight twist:
If you get sick and hospitalized (and you were not vaccinated), you pay 100% of cost. That would be an incentive.
Or, if you have health insurance and you don’t want the vaccine, you pay more for coverage. (Same as for smokers) And if you dont like it, you find another insurance company
This is coming very soon. Insurance companies are not going to pay for treatment when there is a vaccine available.
By this reasoning, why should insurance companies pay medical bills for people that are obese?
Of course the Obese should pay more!, just like the elderly and smokers.
smh! you do understand that there plenty of people who dont treat there bodys like garbage who are obese? smokers, i agree. there is something to be said
+100
Do you have a free and safe vaccine for mitigating the health risks which come from obesity?
“next round of $1,400 per person stimulus check”
Is there one coming?
Yea maybe Biden will hope that another $1400 check will get him over the 40% approval mark.
I personally am pro vaccines. In this instance, I don’t think anything is being said and done with science. The mandate and other rules are just to show that even in a democratic country, I am your leader and I am in control.
If someone had chickenpox, they are not required to get the vaccine. If someone either lived in the 1950’s or had measles, they too don’t have to get that vaccine, etc. This is because natural immunity is just as good, or if not better than a vaccine. Those who had covid-19, and were ill from it, not just a sniffle or did not even know that they have but tested with antibodies, should not be forced, mandated to get a shot. Let’s look at the science.
There are many people I know who had covid-19 or took 2 vaccines, and got covid recently. I even know a 2 people that had covid in 2020, took 2 vaccines this year and got covid again. All these above mentioned people did not have bad cases at all. Some had sore throats, some a cold and achy bones with light grade fever. No shortness of breath, no coughing, no low oxygen levels, no loss of smell, no headaches, etc.
In the Tri-State area, doctors prescibe monoclonial antibodies for anyone that is diagnosed with covid, with or without a vaccine. Fact is, people are getting covid just as much after a vaccine as after have been exposed.
Bottom line, it is here to stay everyone will get it and we need to treat it. Any place in the country that they treat covid right away, the death and hospitalizaition rates are down. But all those obnoxious places that don’t want to treat, only intubate, will unfortanately still keep on losing patients.
I am not sure how we can test if one with antibodies has good immunity to covid, as the medical websites say one’s antibody count has nothing to do with their immunity.
Forcing people to take a vaccine without any science behind it (truthful study) proving that it is extremely better than natural immunity (not 1.5 / 10 vs 1.55 /10) is cruel and a falls under dictatorship.
I would add most people are were fine with mandates up until now – there are plenty of required vaccines to get your child into school or college etc. The issue is with this particular vaccine – as every day passes with the ever changing variants, we are seeing less and less of a reason to push these vaccines, it is showing very little benefit for the general public ie protecting others from catching the virus. Even protecting oneself it’s only showing to help a bit keeping people out of the hospital. It just seems the government ran out of answers on what to do for this endemic so the only thing they could think of is let’s push this vaccine – when it’s clearly not an answer – rather a distraction.
People didn’t get the vaccine, virus continues to spreads and mutate, vaccine is less. effective, people shouldn’t get the vaccine. Clearly all the governments fault here…
the purpose of tax credits, refunds, etc. is to buy votes. So, tying tax credits to vaccines doesn’t buy votes. the govt wants rebates or tax credits to go out easily. tying them to any conditions doesn’t buy votes.
Dan the reason we don’t want the gov’t telling us what to do has nothing to do with morgues, efficacy or any other silly statistic. It’s because we don’t want the govt telling us what to do! You can provide all the evidence you want those vaccines are good, I still don’t want the govt forcing anyone to take a vaccine or rewarding anyone (with a tax credit) for taking a vaccine. Stay the hell out of everyone’s lives!! People are fully capable of consulting with a doctor to determine whether a vaccine is right for them. A government bureaucrat in Washington is not a better decision maker then a private individual and their doctor.
Uh. I said I’m not a fan of government mandates, so not sure what the call out here is for.
“rewarding people who do what the government wants” is just as mandate in disguise.
what government (mandate) will my next “reward” be tied to?
It turns out that obesity is a better determining factor than the vaccine. Meaning to states, those who are obese are far more likely to get sick (and die) then those who are not vaccinated. Countries who have seen the most deaths are those with the highest obesity rates, regardless of “vaccine percentage”
be careful when you wish for more government involvement.
I didn’t wish for anything and you are misconstruing what I did say.
I said if our current leaders see the need to make an employment mandate, why not use a carrot approach instead of a stick approach?
It’s far more palatable to pay people $1,400 to get vaxxed than to tell them they can’t keep their job if they’re not vaxxed.
they won’t use a carrot approach because it doesn’t buy votes, which is the sole purpose of tax credits.
It seems buying votes with tax credits didn’t work for the last administration. Since you want government out of our lives then you are ok with abortions?
Agree
There’s one reason why they don’t want to use a “carrot” approach. The Minority Community / People of color have a low vaccination rate. They refuse to vacinate – if you were to give money only to those who agree to vaccinate it would unfairly disadvantage minority / people of color who do not want to vacinate. So in the name of social justice they do not want to use your carrot approach.
Why not $1,400 to those that lose weight?
Great idea!
For all concerned people… I just heard from a reliable source that the city has no jurisdiction over the schools since they’re state and federally funded.
So the whole mandate is unenforceable and a simple play for politics……
Sooo, a stolen school bus rams countless in an effort to flee NYPD. NYPDs hands are tied because they’re “not allowed” to forcefully stop someone from hurting himself or doing property damage.
Issuing a mandate where the city has questionable jurisdiction is perfectly fine though.
Someone please explain the logic…
People need to wake up and realize this isn’t about public health at all anymore…
Otherwise they wouldn’t be blocking, censoring, and threatening other opinions and would allow open discussions to question the safety of these vaccines etc..
Fact is there are so many known safe treatments for covid today that wasn’t known In the beginning and it’s been proven to keep out of the hospital all those who treat covid right in the beginning. So what’s the vaccine needed for then??? (And let me just say I know of a few vaccinated people who are currently in the hospital with covid now and many many more who thank G-d aren’t hospitalized but are sick with covid at home… So point is there is no logical reason for mandating.
Promote the safe and effective cures for covid that has a lot less side effects and risks than the vaccine does (and you can’t argue this anymore bc more and more people are coming out with their stories of themselves or loved ones that were injured right after taking the vaccine or booster – and I Personally know in my own life more than a few people who had horrible side effects without even looking at social media which is full of stories.
Next point is the fact that they don’t accept natural immunity is a red flag on its own that this has nothing to do with following the science. More like follow the politics!!
Which other disease do they tell u to still get vaccinated for after you got the real thing?!?
And which other vaccine (and I got them all as a child) do you see people vaccinated for them catching that same disease left and right all around you. Not for measles, mumps, Polio etc and the rest of them but this is what’s happening with the covid one. Instead of admitting it’s a failure they just keep pushing booster after booster and blaming it’s ineffectivemess on not being boostered up every 6months. This is insanity!! Even the flu shot is once a year.
So obviously this covid jab is worthless and does nothing. Those who feel like taking it should feel free too and those who don’t should also feel free to not and not lose out on anything in society for refusing an experimental injection in them. We are a free country after all!
Wake up folks before it’s too late and all your freedoms are gone!!
“Fact is” followed by purely subjective options. 96% of doctors are vaccinated. I don’t pretend to know all the details but I do know that if I’m going to pick a side, its going to on the side of the experts… like actual ones.
Everyone calm down. Nothing happened. In 1 week there will be no more private yeshivas in NYC. They will be called “Child Care”, “Dog Watching Service” or some other legal jargon that will have government officials scratching their heads.
LOL Spot on!!! Not one rebbi in new York will get vaccinated because of this mandate.
Lol.
If the US would make the next round of $1,400 per person stimulus checks, $3,600 child credits, universal preschool, expanded earned income credits, and $12,500 electric car handouts contingent on being fully vaccinated, there would be lines wrapping around every pharmacy in the country!
That’s just as unconstitutional.
How is it unconstitutional?
Thanks guys!!! This thread gave me much entertainment and good laughs
The carrot and stick approach has been tried and it hasn’t worked. Sometimes mandates are necessary. We mandate all kinds of other things. One is mandated to pay their taxes, one is mandated to wear a seatbelt while driving. There are obvious consequences when someone breaks those laws and is caught. This is called being part of a civil society, we are supposed to care for each other. That’s why we vaccinate against all kinds of other diseases. If the other overwhelming majority (i.e. 90+ percent of the country) were vaccinated we could call it a day and end the madness. Until that happens this insanity will continue.
No real carrots have been tried. We went right to mandates/sticks.
If the carrot of “you will live” doesn’t work, what will?
What I suggested in the post?
I mean maybe. I would have no issues with the suggestion in the post, I just don’t really think it would work.
The fact they are trying to push this so hard scares the absolute crap out of me.
We live in America, not Russia or China.
Give the people the choice.
And Dan, I agree with you,
People should be incentivized.
Vaccinated people are spreading the virus @ a much higher rate then unvaccinated, since many are asymptomatic.
I spoke to a Dr who had a fully vaccinated patient, who’s only symptom was a runny nose. The patient was COVID +
Do you go to the doctor for a runny nose?
Your premise is incorrect. When the CDC said that vaccinated person can carry the same viral load as an unvaccinated person, it was with a number of very important, yet seemingly ignored caveats. The first is that it is it only applies to when they actually get infected and the vaccine lowers that risk substantially. Even when an infection happens, while the viral load can be the same as an unvaccinated person, it usually isn’t. And when it is, its is for a much shorter period of time! Ignoring the details is what leads to misinformation.
The government has no business either mandating or incentivizing anyone to take any medication or serum especially an experimental vaccine where neither the drug company producing the vaccine nor the government pushing it has any liability for adverse effects. Taking a medication or vaccine for a potential medical risk is exclusively a personal decision. I personally have natural immunity and believe that my immunity is stronger than any vaccinated person. If certain people only want to fraternize with others who are vaccinated knock yourselves out.
I had covid and am a somewhat healthy 71 year old. I had fever, diarrhea and fatigue that is other worldly. The doctor, who had had many covid patients, told me it was covid. He gave me Ivermectin and I was better in 3 days. This is a fact folks. Many, many, many others experience the same thing.
… and many many others also died. I’m not sure what your point is? That Ivermectin is a cure? Even though every single study has shown that it isn’t?
CovidDOTusDOTorg/ivermectin/
I’m really sorry someone pointed you to such a site.
Almost every single article on that page is well over a year old and outdated. Furthermore, a number of the linked sites have unknown owners and simply can’t be looked at seriously. You should be skeptical of any site where the ownership is not clear.
The only reliable link is from covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov, which clearly outlines why ivermectin is not recommended for treatment of COVID-19.
And all the linked YouTube videos are just anecdotal and their inclusion is clearly just an attempt to bolster a false narrative.
Can’t wait for Lakewood home prices to double again.
#LeaveNYC
#leavenyc
Burn the house down on the way out…..
Only detached homes please…
Mandate the vaccine for people on food stamps , unemployment , section 8 etc
No, the while point is to make everyone unemployed and onto the government dole.
Yes.
when does your right to choose, exceed your right to put the country’s hospitals under strain. States are having areas stop elective surgeries, hospitals are over booked and people with chest pain are afraid to go to the ER.
If you agree that is when yo get sick yo will not go to the ER will not block a hospital bed and will not go to the ICU then you MAY have a point.
You also still have the right of others to be safe. EVEN if they were vaccinated they can still catch it just like all vaccines it is not 100%. Vaccination being mandated in a democracy is an accepted fact. If you want to move about us we have a right to see to it that you are not a danger to others. Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Meningococcus etc are all MANDATED and I do not see anyone demonstrating except the rare anti vaxxers who are against all vaccines.
You do not want a vaccine-great we wont force you but stay out of stores, schools, restaurants, social events any place where you can be a danger to others by your refusal.
To say I have covid so i do not need to, unless you get tested weekly and get the vaccine 2 weeks before your titers drop off, that doesn’t work. Even the vaccines wear off and we know people get covid twice. Yes even with the Vaccine you can catch it but the overwhelming majority of hospitalized, especially ICU patients were not vaccinated. In addition all of you refusers, how many of you put your lives on the line to go into the hospitals and care for these patients who get deathly ill with something avoidable.
Would you prefer a 10,000 dollar covid tax to help over the added costs to society and if you get vaccinated yo get e rebate. I think that is a great idea NO one is forced those that refuse to practice prevention pay the cost of care.
Finally to say it is not 100% effective so i wont get one, makes no sense. NOTHING in medicine is 100%.
A lot of assumptions: That the unvaccinated put people in danger (not really true if the vaccine doesn’t seem to prevent actual infection). And that a strain is being put on the hospitals (not really something you can accuse the average vaccine doubter, as hardly any of them will end up in the hospital, especially if they’re young and already had the virus, which statistically helps at least somewhat in some people, if not all).
The vaccines that have been released so far are not good enough to be mandated. (Not that mandates are a good thing anyway). A proper vaccine would protect the vulnerable enough so that they needn’t worry about being exposed to someone who is not vaccinated.
So… no vaccine ever?
If you are vaccinated then you shouldn’t be scared of the unvaccinated. If you are unvaccinated, then that is on you and whatever you suffer because of your own decision is your own fault. It’s that simple. There is no rationale to mandate vaccines to protect the already protected or those who don’t care to be protected.
iT SEEMS LIKE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE HOSPITALS AND MORGUES ARE THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN VACCINATED, NOT THE UNVAXXED!
Fake news.
https://datadashboard.health.gov.il/COVID-19/general?utm_source=go.gov.il&utm_medium=referral
Pure politics. goes into effect 5 days before he leaves office. then will require action on Eric Adams’ part to reverse it
illegal and irresponsible
Adults aren’t. At least those who realize that if they need to get paid to take something, they might want to think twice.
Very simple – is the current set of vaccines perfect? No. But if government keeps mandating them and forcing people to get them, there is no motivation for Big Pharma to improve them. I love the bureaucrats that are on one hand, outright saying the vaccine is not effective against omicron while on the other hand, forcing vaccinations in the name of omicron. I’m wondering why the sudden forced vaccine push with end of year deadlines and I keep coming up with the same answers – Either the pandemic is nearing its end, or Novavax (which is being submitted for FDA Approval, with a much higher safety profile) is going to corner the market.
Temporarily blocked as of 12/7.