Cleveland’s Orthodox Jewish community has experienced explosive growth over the past decade as people discovered its excellent quality of life thanks to its low cost of living, warm and friendly community, safe suburban neighborhoods, excellent schools, short commute times with low traffic and plenty of parking, with a revitalized core on the water with several sports teams and world-class museums. The kosher restaurant scene is coming along nicely, and now even the ballpark has kosher food available, though an upscale dairy restaurant would be very welcome and do quite well here. Lots of these factors have been discussed over the years on the DansDeals Forums and many people have come over to me telling me how that thread opened their eyes and convinced them to make a move.
Yes, Winters here are rough, but the Spring, Summer, and Fall weather is among the best in the country. And frankly, it’s a lot easier for me to add layers than it is to remove them. Besides, when a city is prepared for inclement weather, winter weather just is not that big of a deal.
But perhaps the most obvious reason for the growth has been the private school tuition vouchers. For many years, most of the community lived within public school districts that were considered failing, and therefore qualified for vouchers towards any private school. That came to a partial end a couple of years ago as the schools were no longer considered failing, though once you received a voucher for living in a failing school district, all of your kids receive those vouchers until they reach 12th grade. Last year those vouchers were worth $5,500 for K-8 and $6,500 for high school.
While new vouchers weren’t available for failing school districts, vouchers were still available for families that qualified based on earning less than 200% of the federal poverty level, regardless of where they lived. Those vouchers had to be accepted by schools as full tuition and parents can’t be charged any additional tuition by the school.
I spoke with Rabbi Yitz Frank, the executive director of Agudath Israel of Ohio and Chairman Of The Board for School Choice Ohio, to learn more about the changes for the coming school year.
Ohio’s new EdChoice voucher will be available to every Ohio resident, though the amount will be based on income. Timing will be critical, as once you qualify at one level, you can maintain that level for all of your kids until they finish high school. However, if your income does go down, you can qualify for life at the lower income level.
Below is what kind of voucher Ohio residents will receive for each child for the 2023-2024 school year, based on their household AGI. Also included is the income threshold for a family of 4, though that will quickly grow for larger families. Just add the additional income allowed for each child to calculate the threshold for families larger than 4 members.
For example, a family with 6 kids would qualify for the 500% level with a household income up to $252,800 ($150,000 for a family of 4, plus $25,700 each for the additional 4 kids)
| Federal Poverty Level | K-8th grade voucher | 9-12th grade voucher | Max income level for family of 4 | Additional income allowed for each additional child |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Up to 200% | $6,165, and schools can't charge more. | $8,407, and schools can't charge more. | $60,000 | $10,280 |
| 201-450% | $6,165 | $8,407 | $135,000 | $23,130 |
| 451-500% | $5,200 | $7,050 | $150,000 | $25,700 |
| 501-550% | $3,650 | $5,000 | $165,000 | $28,270 |
| 551-600% | $2,600 | $3,550 | $180,000 | $30,840 |
| 601-650% | $1,850 | $2,500 | $195,000 | $33,410 |
| 651-700% | $1,300 | $1,750 | $210,000 | $35,980 |
| 701-750% | $900 | $1,250 | $225,000 | $38,550 |
| 751% or higher | $650 | $950 | No limit | No limit |
Rabbi Frank tells me that he expects in future years that larger vouchers will be greatly expanded to include even higher incomes.
He notes that people currently grandfathered into failing school district vouchers will get the new voucher amount of $6,165 for K-8 or $8,407 for 9-12th great, regardless of their income.
He has spoken to local private school boards, and they have committed to keeping tuition in line with the consumer price index, to keep tuition levels stable despite the influx of vouchers.
Rabbi Frank also points out that new families will qualify when their first child reaches Kindergarten. At that time, their income is often relatively low and they may already have several kids. That will help them lock them into a high voucher amount for all of their kids through 12th grade.
While housing prices in Cleveland are much higher than they used to be, he is hopeful that people will continue spreading out and growing the community. Perhaps these vouchers will be the impetus to start communities a little further away from the current saturated areas? Cheap housing is plentiful a little further out and those areas can still take advantage of local resources, but with highly affordable housing.
Have you moved to Cleveland over the last decade or are you considering moving? How has it been working out for you?
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127 Comments On "Here’s How Ohio’s New Universal School Choice Education Vouchers Will Work"
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Are the income amounts based on total income or adjusted gross income from form 1040? Or does EdChoice have their own way of measuring income?
The conservatives are pretty liberal about that one.
AGI
Are you sure? I spoke with them and they said before deductions.
AGI is before deductionsā¦
Huh? Many deductions reduce AGI, most significantly retirement contributions. If both spouses max out their workplace retirement plan, that’s a difference of $41,000 right there, which is huge. Never mind other deductions like $5,000 for Dependent Care FSA, $7,000 for HSA etc etc. If they use total income instead of AGI that would be a significant reduction in the amount of the voucher for many people. Not saying what’s fair or not, I just hope the rules become clear so people can plan š
Dan, are you sure about this?? I have been looking everywhere for an official source and there isn’t one. I have heard that in these early stages people have been submitting paystubs and total gross income would be used, which would unfortunately be MUCH higher than AGI. Can you point me to a source that says it’s AGI? Thanks for the write-up!!
Seems to clearly state AGI here:
https://education.ohio.gov/getattachment/Topics/Other-Resources/Scholarships/EdChoice-Scholarship-Program/2023-2~1.PDF.aspx
File not found
You do get taxed to death in Cleveland, both property and income, if you’re coming from a low tax area (Florida, Philly, Texas, etc). We were looking to move but our taxes would increase by over $100,000 a year.
Taxed to death?
In Beachwood I pay 2% property tax and 2% local income tax. OH income tax is 3-3.99%, though the first $250K of business income isn’t subject to tax. The OH income tax rate has gone down significantly over the past decade and will likely be abolished in the next several years based on how red the statehouse is trending and what the reps saying.
Pray tell, how does that add up to an extra $100,000 a year?
It’s not FL or TX, but it’s also 75 degrees and lovely outside. I can walk to shul without dripping in sweat. And yes, in the winter I can wear a nice knee length down coat.
Also, since when is Philly low tax?
Maybe he makes $20 million a year? I’m sure the $650 school vouchers were tempting, but he was probably concerned the time it takes to fill out the paperwork will occupy the time he normally spends on Dans Deals saving $3 on his next order of Honey Bunches of Oats…
And even if you only make $500,000 a year your taxes would still go up $14K + 9%*$500,000 = $59,000 extra every year.
It’s not 9%, that’s nonsense. Nor would you live in UH at that income level.
Even at $500,000, it could still make sense to live in UH. There’s an extra 1.5% income tax, but the vouchers more than make up for that as long as you have 2 kids getting vouchers ($500,000*1.5%=$7500). Property taxes have a higher percentage in UH, but the property values on similar-sized houses is lower which mostly cancels that out.
(It’s a different calculation now that UH isn’t a failing district anymore for anyone moving in now, but for people already there, it could make sense to stay. It depends on income level and of course the new voucher rules, which mean people will get something even in Beachwood, though many won’t get the full amount.)
Where did you get 9% from?
University Heights is a bit higher for Income and Property Tax. In Florida I pay about 1% property vs 3% in University Heights. That adds about $14,000 a year in property tax for $700K home. I also heard there is a municipality tax of another 2%. My wife and I earn about $900,000 a year. So 0% Florid vs UH would be 3.99% OH state, 2.5% city+ 2% municipality. So 8.5% tax would be $76,500 extra income tax. So 14K +76.5K = `$90,500 extra taxes a year. Also you mention business tax, my friend in Beachwood said he is getting slammed with business taxes and thinking of moving to Florida because of it.
Umm, then vouchers would not be relevant for you anyways..
Obviously, not all of Florida is equal. But in general, a $700K home is considerably larger in the frum neighborhoods of Cleveland than in the frum neighborhoods in Florida. Also, many properties in Cleveland have a multi year tax abatement. I’m currently paying around $6k in annual property taxes on my 3200 sq ft (plus basement), 6 bedroom, 4.5 bath home because of my abatement which will last for another 11 or so years.
The city tax is the municipality tax.
What he meant was, in Ohio it’s possible to pay TWO municipal/city income taxes, one where you live and one where you work. Many cities (eg Beachwood) give a full credit of what you pay in the city you work in so you don’t pay twice, though many don’t (eg University Heights). It can be a bit tricky to figure out.
+1000000
Cleveland and Florida are the 2 best places to move for a Frum family (besides for EY, of course…)
Have you checked COL in FL recently? Food, housing, and insurance are completely out of control. The lack of state income tax is nice but FL has become exorbitantly expensive over the last 2 years alone. Thereās currently a homeowner insurance crisis where companies are pulling out the state en masse and rates are going up 5-10x. My auto insurance was just doubled even though Iāve never made a claim in my life
Comparing COL to FL is wild. Housing and insurance is just nuts!
The insurance crisis has no end in sight. As much as we support DeSantis, he needs to address the rapidly deteriorating affordability issue consuming FL before running a failing presidential campaign.
The Jewish community in Philadelphia is right outside the city so you pay a 0% local tax and 3.09% state tax even if you work in the city. Also property tax is 1.6%. so both are much lower than Beachwood and far lower than University Heights or Cleveland heights.
Oh, I also forgot, when I was looking into it I think it’s that if I live in University Heights and work outside I also have to pay an extra difference I believe it was another half a percent. So that adds another $4,500 and now we’re up to $95,000 of extra taxes.
Not sure why you’re looking into UH over Beachwood at that income level.
I mentioned all the relevant taxes that apply above.
He made some good points regarding the taxes below. Care to respond or is he accurate?
He is exaggerating.
Anyone who thinks FL is still low COL is out of touch. In the last 2 years, home prices, car insurance, homeowners insurance, groceries, restaurants, and more have skyrocketed in price. The lack of state income tax doesnāt alleviate very much. Not to mention, the same house in FL has 1 floor, no basement allowed, and possibly a second floor if youāre lucky. The landscape has changed so dramatically that many natives are being priced out and ppl are moving away. Houses have gotten 3-4x more expensive in the last year or two and the homeowners insurance crisis has no end in sight
sorry mate, but your math sounds overexaggerated considering the taxes of NY or Philly.
Get some perspective,
To everyone, including Banana, I would love for you to show me your calculations where my math is wrong instead of just saying “your math is wrong”? Also you mention NY. I specifically said low tax areas like Bala Cynwyd, FL, Texas, and did not include NY obviously.
Philly has low property tax but the income tax is higher.
You can compare tax rates for different cities or zip codes here https://smartasset.com/taxes/income-taxes
https://smartasset.com/taxes/property-taxes
Philly the city is high, but the Jewish community is right outside the city, which I lived in, is 0% income tax Plus 3.09% state, so definitely lower than any areas of Cleveland.
@Dan, I agree Beachwood would be lower taxes than UH but most young, more religious, people live in UH. Every house we checked out in Beachwood was not nearly as”good” of a block as places in UH. Also still, even Beachwood was much higher than Florida. Beachwood you said you’re paying 6% income and 2% property. Also what about the municipality or county tax or whatever it’s called? I heard from a few friends there that is another 2% tax you have to pay. Also that 2% tax in Beachwood only applies if you work in beachwood. Once you work outside of Beachwood you’re paying even more. But even if you work in Beachwood I would be paying 6% extra income tax and 1% extra property tax which comes out to an extra $61,000 a year. That’s not including if you work outside of Beachwood or the extra 2% tax I was told about.
Your research was flawed.
There is no extra mini tax or 2% or extra tax for working outside of Beachwood. And there are plenty of young couples here.
The first $250K of business income is not taxed by OH.
So what’s this extra 2% tax a few people told me about? I’ll have to message my Beachwood friend about his business tax but he was saying it was crazy high and I don’t think he earns over $250K a year. Assuming there is no extra 2% municipality tax and we both work and live in Beachwood we would be at an extra $61,000 a year in taxes. But as mentioned, my wife will likely work outside Beachwood and we are leaning towards UH over Beachwood. Also I failed to mention that in Florida the vouchers are not income based so we get those at any income level. Also in Florida we get over $10,000 vouchers for our kids.
Exshoyoguy, call me sorely mistaken and judgmental, but I find it hard to believe that your family earns $900,000/year. Thereās just too many flaws and inadequacies in your logic and understanding of taxation to make it likely that you are an earner of almost $1M per year. Somethingās offā¦
End of the day, FL is going to win out on taxes. But your OH math is way off.
Personally I’m miserable in FL between April and November because of the weather.
And then the winter brings horrendous traffic and jammed restaurants and services.
Everything you need to get to takes forever.
Not for me at this point of my life.
Simply live in Florida for the winter and Cleveland for the summer!
Snowbirds have it made.
Not practical with school aged kids though.
I agree there are flaws to Florida but traffic doesn’t really affect me being remote. @Dave it really care if you don’t believe my salary based on my understanding of taxes which you haven’t been able to prove so it sounds like you’re just jealous? My wife and I both earn a very high salary and with her own practice she herself can earn over a million a year (her uncle in the same specialty earns over a million). Everything I posted about taxes was correct, the only “unknown” is the extra 2% more than more than one person in Cleveland told me they pay. But like I said even without that, my taxes would still go up about $80K a year. But like I said even a family earning only $500K still is paying about $50K more in taxes. Pros of Florida: much less clothes needed since one season and not worrying about kids dragging in snow and slush. Always something going on for kids to do all year. Vacation spot so you see family and friends all winter coming down. Vouchers for all income levels and better vouchers but prob higher tuition. Quick flight to many southern vacation countries. Cons: very hot summer months if you live far from shul. Expensive insurance and housing in most areas. Pros of Cleveland: cheaper housing (plus basement), cheaper insurance, better summer weather. Vouchers are better if you’re poor. Cons: grey skys most of the year which gets depressing and terrible winters compared to almost every Jewish community in the country. Not much to do for family on Sundays. Very high property and income taxes.
Well, after your convincing post about moving to Ohio, traffic in Florida will be a breeze compared to Ohio. Forget about Fridays and erev Yom Tov.
What you are calling “extra mini-tax” is that you might pay 2 municipal income taxes- one where you live and one where you work, if that’s 2 different cities. But if you live in Beachwood you DO NOT pay this, since Beachwood gives a full credit for what you pay to the city you work in. So you will only pay 2% total. If you live in UH, you WILL pay this, and in most cases it will be a extra 1.5% on top of what you pay to the city you work in.
@dan is he referring to RITA tax?
No, I mentioned local income tax in my original reply:
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/news/heres-ohios-new-universal-education-vouchers-will-work/comment-page-1/#comment-1645525
Seems like he didn’t properly research Beachwood at all, which is a surprising omission for someone with a $900K income looking into CLE options.
Yes, I was talking about the RITA tax, I was told by a few UH friends that they also pay that on top of their UH income tax but they may have been mistaken. Additionally, as mentioned, that tax rate assumes we work and live in Beachwood. Once you don’t do both you pay an extra tax. I don’t see the HAC families leaving UH and moving to Beachwood so my kids wouldn’t have friends. We looked at a house in Larchmont and the realtor told us we would be the only ones basically with young kids. Same for other blocks except for Mizrachi families. @jonny i do agree Florida has got expensive. But of you bought a house 2 years ago it’s definitely cheaper. It’s also far cheaper for high income earners as I mentioned because of the tax rate. And definitely even now there’s many Jewish areas where you can buy three bedroom houses for $600,000 and your property tax is still lower than a 3 bed house in UH, but yes, you do get a basement in Ohio. Additionally if you play the credit card game even though food is more expensive in Florida we barely pay for food because we get so much free food from gopuff and grocery store points. Go puff doesn’t exist in Cleveland One reason for us to move to Cleveland even though we get shafted financially is because we have family and friends there because I grew up there. I remember Dan growing up.
Again, you are making bad assumptions.
You do not pay double RITA tax for working outside of Beachwood. With your income level Beachwood is a no-brainer.
There are multiple Beachwood busses full of HAC kids and my kids have plenty of HAC friends within walking distance.
You got bad info and/or are still living in the 1980s.
Which blocks have young HAC kids in Beachwood with houses for sale? My friends in UH and CH told me they can’t move to Beachwood because half the class is CH and half UH with barely any Beachwood. We’re looking for a 4-6 bedroom house. Also I heard if you live in Beachwood and work outside you don’t pay double tax, you do get a credit, but it’s a partial credit so you pay over 2%. Is this not true? My friend in UH says he pays over 2.5% because his wife works in Beachwood. Also is there any extra business tax? I asked my Beachwood friend just now about the $250K limit and he wasn’t sure but says he pays a huge amount.
Houses often don’t go up for sale publicly, definitely helps to have a good realtor that knows what’s coming up. We sold our last Beachwood home months before we moved and never listed it.
Sorry, but if there are multiple Beachwood busses full of HAC kids, that’s simply fake news or old misconceptions.
All 4 of my kids have HAC friends in Beachwood that they can walk to.
That is not true. Beachwood gives a full RITA credit if you work out of Beachwood.
I don’t pay any extra tax, but I can’t speak for other businesses.
Interesting, maybe only UH you pay extra if you work outside UH? I probably need a good Cleveland accountant. I spoke to a realtor but she couldn’t find anything in Beachwood that she said would be as “good” of a block for our kids as UH :/ And with UH I would get shafted with the property taxes because the houses didn’t have an abatement.
Sounds like you need a better realtor and a better accountant?
Probably both. Or is it possible the HAC kids in Beachwood are older families with older kids? I identify as young 30’s since I got married late and my wife is 30. My oldest is 4 and my friends in Cleveland also have younger kids (8 and younger).
Nope, runs the gamut.
@Dan, what does runs the gamut mean?
I agree with Dan. For someone who claims they make $900k, how do you easily confuse city tax and minimalist tax? How do you mix up the local sales tax of Montgomery County, PA and the non-resident Philadelphia income tax for those working in city limits? Unless you are renting an apartment in Florida, how do you not mention the challenges and unaffordable costs of maintaining homeowners insurance in Florida. An 800 square foot Century Village apartment has an insurance rate of several thousand dollars annually. How are you not familiar with the value of deductions, or claiming primary residence in another location? I certainly donāt make more than $125k a year, and I only have grandparents in a Florida apartment, but with all respect and kindness I donāt believe you know what you are talking about. Youāll get an equal volume of my respect if you earn $90k or $900k, but I do value honesty and integrity.
@Dave, not sure what I confused? I spoke to multiple people who told me they pay a 2% RITA tax on top of local tax. Also as CitTownBin pointed out you can pay up to 4% local tax in UH if you work elsewhere. So that’s 4%+3.99% you’re paying 8% vs 0% Florida or 3.09% Philly. Also I said, I worked in Philly and lived outside and paid only 3.09%, as did most of my friends there or they worked locally and still paid 3.09% state and 0 local. I’m not confused what I did because I was remote. So I paid 0% local/city tax. Not sure where you think I misspoke? I also did mention insurance here is much higher but it’s still a wash compared to the $90,000 in extra income and property tax. So everything you are calling me out in is incorrect. My wife is in the highest paid specialty in her field and I also make a high income and have another business. Long term we will easily exceed a million dollars. Not sure where you see income correlates to knowledge of another city taxes I don’t live in and is all based on talking to friends. The highest paid people I know usually know far less than me about taxes and investing.
Yes, it is only if you live in UH that you pay an extra 1.5% on top of the city you work in. If you live in Beachwood you don’t pay this, and you will only pay 2% total.
It’s true that VERY GENERALLY there are more HAC kids in UH than Beachwood, but there are PLENTY of HAC families in Beachwood as well as Dan says. It’s also true that there are significantly more Mizrachi families in Beachwood than UH, so if you’re in Beachwood you will likely have a nice mix on your block. But that could also be a good thing. Either way, it’s not even close to true that if you’re in Beachwood there wouldn’t be HAC families.
Also, now that UH doesn’t get you higher vouchers (since it’s no longer a failing school district) than Beachwood for new people moving in (though if you’re already in UH then you are grandfathered in), these demographics might change. At least for people at a slightly higher income level, Beachwood makes more sense due to the lower municipal income tax (this wasn’t true before since the UH vouchers more than made up for that). So I suspect that more new HAC families moving in will try to move to Beachwood. The real problem is, there isn’t enough housing in Beachwood (at least the areas that currently have frum Jews) to meet the demand.
@Ctownbin I’ve seen plenty of houses in Beachwood near shul but every time I get told not to go on that block of wet want young HAC families, such as a recent house we checked out on Larchmont.
If my wife ever earns over 1 million a year, I sure hope I don’t spend my days worried about gopuff credits and school vouchers!
@Eric, my wife doesn’t earn that yet lol, maybe if she opens her own practice. But I still love my free $800 of go puff every month. I’ll chase deals all day with credit cards etc no matter my financial state. Much better to fly to Israel with the family for free even when you could afford it.
I don’t see how you can earn much with gopuff, except if you make pickup orders.
Minimum order has to be $13, or else you get charged a small order fee.
So for each order you have to pay at least $3. Take into consideration that everything on GP is extremely overpriced so your savings per order are max $3-4 after the $10 credit.
You have 80 chase cards?
Wow. Dan what have you created! We have here someone earning 900k a year between himself and his wife, and they barely spend on food because of gopuff and credit card points!
Is tuition ever one of the quarterly bonus spends on the chase cards?
We just moved to South Euclid and while we were not expecting to qualify for vouchers it is a nice bonus that we greatly appreciate.
We have already met our local mayor and one council person and got the traffic light on our corner to automatically display walk signal on shabbos to cross into Beachwoodā¦. We have lovely neighbors and couldnāt be happier with our choice to move here.
Awesome.
Now they just need to add a crosswalk at Campus and Cedar.
My son and his family live on Campus & daven at GRS. It’s a wonderful community and if we were starting over as a young couple, Beachwood would be very high on the list!
Yes. Brbs was talking about crossing over Cedar at Green.
Re: Another light at Campus and Cedar… As it is, there are a lot of traffic lights on Cedar between Richmond and Green. No?
So if you actually work or make a decent living is there any reason to move to Cleveland?
The quality of life is incredible.
Everything is within a 10 minute drive. There’s no crazy traffic and plenty of parking. The weather is great for much of the year. It’s very safe and suburban. It’s driveable from anywhere in between Chicago and NYC. The community and schools are awesome. Etc.
What can you do for fun in Cleveland besides the metro parks? I feel like in South Florida there is so many family things to do every Sunday we’re going out but when I talk to friends in Cleveland there’s not much to do. That’s one of the other reasons we’re hesitant to move to Cleveland.
Tons. Besides the amazing metroparks, Cleveland is also on the water, has 3 sports teams, excellent museums and amusement parks etc.
More in the wiki:
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=1343.0
What exactly do you do in FL that you can’t do in Cleveland?
Also, every child living in University Heights is now eligible for an annual ACE grant of $1000 which can be used towards local day camps in the summer, or towards memberships at local museums, zoos, gyms, pools etc. I literally have free memberships for my family this year at the Botanical gardens, science center, zoo, UH municipal pool. And I still have leftover value in the grants.
Wow!
@Josh, yeah I heard about the camp voucher, but yeah that’s also only UH, if we move to Beachwood. Also the Science center in Cleveland was very blah, Pittsburgh and Florida were much better. @Dan there’s always some concert, carnival or something going on. Miami has so many great things, gardens, museums, Parrot jungle, monkey jungle, water parks (although I heard Beachwood water park is nice but UH can’t go there), and a ton more. Here every Sunday I’m talking the kids somewhere else and I talk to my friends in Cleveland and I feel like it’s always the metro parks and Nelson Ledges or it’s too cold. Growing up my dad took us to the cemetery to see all the dead presidents lol
So get a membership at the science center in Cleveland and use it to get into the Pittsburgh one for free. That’s a great way to spend a Sunday. And yes, Cleveland has a lot of outdoor spaces. That’s a very healthy way for kids to spend their time. I took my kids to the Botanical gardens today, and it was impossible to drag them away.
And honestly, who needs a Parrot Park when you have deer roaming through your half acre back yard?
How were you able to get ACE to cover purvis??
For swimming lessons
Milwaukee is a hidden gem. Vouchers are for 100% and the school can’t officially charge you any more. The amount just got increase to 9.9k for elementary and 12.3 for high school. 300% over qualifies you to get into the program and once a kid is in they are in through 12th grade. New kids need to qualify when they start. Taxes are relatively high but the free tuition is worth a lot more. We have 4 kosher restaurants now and top notch rabbinic leadership with the Twerski’s. Were 1.5 hours from Chicago and housing is very affordable.
When calculating amount of children, I’m assuming they do not count kids past 12th grade? Also assuming vouchers can only be used in Ohio- think boys in out of town yeshivas, should I assume they don’t get to take advantage of this?
You do count them.
Correct, OH only and I ky through 12th, but there are more options then ever here.
There are also great 529 options.
got you all beat. Chicago property taxes are…. well…. umm…..and our income tax is also umm…. and tuition ha. tuition is ohhhhh. mmmmm.
Nevermind
I like. DD mod blue badge subscription and get leverage with epic Pic responses. Just pls don’t open it up to everyone, we need to keep it’s value.
Approvals are considered if you did a minimum 5/24 via a DD link
is that in the jewish area? no offense I can find houses like that in chicago. just not close to the jewish area
I just moved with my family to Cleveland a few months ago. Best move of my life so far. So many boxes checked off by moving here. Very very affordable housing, coupled with great opportunity for work (clearly that’s based on your field of expertise). Add to the fact the absolutely fantastic schools that they boast here, the vouchers were not something we were counting on but are just a very sweet icing on the cake. Many more things we discovered are the amazing local amenities that every district offers, great (and growing) kosher options available, an amazingly warm community overall, and yes, the lack of traffic and quietness of the suburb living is a massive plus. Im in Chicago for the day (Florida has the exact same problem) and it’s impossible to get around as traffic is completely out of control. I mean, I can go on…. I’d choose Cleveland over Florida any day of the week…. Twice on a Sunday
Awesome!
Doesn’t compare to Phoenix, AZ š
what doesn’t compare? the heat?
Just seems odd to ignore every comment and make it like there is nothing wrong w Cleveland. Who ever says itās easier to add layers than take off? Thatās asinine. Winter is abt 6-8 months and is brutal w the lake effect, and the lack of sun leads to seasonal depression and many crazy horror stories. As well the community is not great for Chabad w no Chabad schools and contention amongst the Chabad community members. Lastly the city itself is just a slightly better version of Detroit and the Jewish community is horrible at supporting itās kosher establishments. Rather pay more and have multiple choices and options and live in a city controlled by conservatives and good weather
Why is it asinine to say it’s easier to bundle up than to take off clothes?
6-8 months winter? Really now?
Community does just fine supporting its kosher establishments, no idea what you’re basing your info on.
I’ve lived in multiple cities on three continents, and barring EY, I don’t think there’s a better place to live and bring up children than Cleveland. Although I’ll admit that a lot of Clevelanders struggle to appreciate what they have here. I guess that applies to former Clevelanders as well.
And as an aside, global warming seems to be working in Cleveland’s favor – the last few years have seen a significant drop in snowfall.
Agreed.
And true story, it’s been quite a while since our last brutal winter.
And yet, while the rest of the country is melting this summer, we’re doing pretty great!
We are moving to CLE next week!
Welcome!
Thanks Dan! Looking forward to meeting you after all these years!
Moving from Tucson?
I donāt begin to understand all the counter arguments!
What about the value of living near Dan and getting to ask him how to add something to subscribe and save and getting $2.35 off your orderā¦ā¦.
+1
I guess @exShoYoGuy has JJ in Florida so heās ok tooā¦.
@Dan Cleveland is going to be a much tougher sell than Emirates shower class
It’s really not. Community has more than doubled since I wrote this!
Schools keep building, but are bursting at the seams.
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=1343.0
@Dan What if you like to get a bagel after 11am? š
We’ve got at least 4 bagel options and 4 pizza options, I think we have that part covered. š
That sounds like a corner in brooklyn
But, with plentiful free parking lots and no traffic jams, sirens, or the stench of trash. š
Crown heights is not necessarily representative of the rest of brooklyn
You mentioned the hot weather for most of the year in south Florida, Tampa actually has nice weather from beg of October until mid June. Chofetz chaimish Community getting started there with a Kollel etc. not so many restaurants yet though they just opened a bakery called Crembo.
I would say October and June are semi-bearable, not very nice though.
I moved to CLE from New York about 8 years ago and we couldn’t be happier. Aside for all the pros that Dan mentioned, there is also no pressure and no keeping up with the Joneses. You don’t need to go broke from making a simcha in Cleveland. People don’t care.
There has also been significant improvement on the kosher food scene. Plus, if you like to travel then you should know that there are two options for priority pass in the airport!
Yes, no pressure to keep up is a huge benefit.
Any information about whether edchoice could be used for online schooling? For a student who’s been getting it for years and is switching to online.
Online charter schools are considered a public school and are free regardless.
Not a charter school, and not free, sadly. (There are tons of online options these days!)
Let’s get a counter article from JJ now š
If it’s so great there how come all your brothers moved out…..
Erm, I have 3 brothers living in CLE.
JJ is only there because he married a Surfside girl. š
But that’s why I married a KC girl. I found that the girls I dated from the coasts had no interest in moving anywhere else, even if a job called for it.
Midwesterners FTW. š
I just moved from University Heights to Beachwood 2 months ago after 11+ years in University Heights, and we thought we’d be giving up the vouchers for good as a result. It is great to see that we will at least get a partial voucher even in Beachwood. For people whose income is such that they will get a decent-sized voucher with this new rule, it changes the equation of University Heights vs. Beachwood- because now the difference in vouchers might not make up for the extra 1.5% income tax in UH that most people pay, and Beachwood looks more attractive.
Where do I apply to get the voucher?
just ask Dan to sign you up.
@DAN have rachmunis for us longtime Cle families though there is some benefit from the explosion in growth i kind of liked the way it was 10 years ago – where I knew almost everyone in UH/Beachwood. I know you can’t turn back the clock especially taking into account the myriad of new Shul options, but i am okay if stay the way we are š
Has anyone tried to sign up for the voucher yet? Iāve been going through the steps and canāt get the income verification app to update properly on the DoE website