Since June, the NY Tri-State area has required those returning from states that have a high COVID-19 infection rate to quarantine upon their return. That includes states that have more than 10 COVID positive cases per 100,000 residents over a 7-day rolling average or have a 10% or higher positivity rate over a 7-day rolling average.
In NY violators are subject to a $2,000-$10,000 fine, in Connecticut there is a $500 fine, and in NJ “compliance is expected” but there’s no specific fine if you don’t comply.
Connecticut, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania now all meet the requirement to be included on the quarantine list and should have been added to the tri-state list today. Of course it would be absurd for New Jersey to tell everyone who has been to New Jersey recently to quarantine.
But that wasn’t enough to get them to scrap the program, instead those states were just left off the NJ and NY quarantine list. But no worries, there are still 40 other US states and territories on the impossible to enforce quarantine list.
This matches the hypocrisy that the city of Chicago had in keeping up its quarantine list, even when Illinois qualified for the list.
Connecticut acknowledged the hypocrisy by saying they would change the rules to require both 5% positivity and 10 COVID positive cases per 100,000 residents over a 7-day rolling average, which will drop the number of affected states and territories to 33. Of course that just shows what a farce the requirements have been until now. Did listening to the science change because Connecticut now met their own high COVID-19 metric or was the previous rule not based on science? NY and NJ aren’t adopting Connecticut’s changes.
I flew to Newark last month when Ohio was bouncing on and off the quarantine list every other week. Ohio was added just before my trip, but as it was just a day trip, I was exempt from the quarantine. I had zero issues driving from Newark into Brooklyn, Manhattan, and Queens and was never informed about the quarantine at any point.
Perhaps its primary purpose is just an attempt to scare tourists away? Looking at the abysmal hotel occupancy rates in NYC, it appears to be working.
Have you flown to the tri-state area during COVID-19 from a state that required quarantine? Did you quarantine?
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81 Comments On "New York And New Jersey Are Supposed To Require Anyone Who Has Been In New Jersey To Quarantine, But They Won’t"
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And now you see what a farce this truly is…
As long as you stay out of the heavily Orthodox areas in NYC, you probably don’t have to worry too much about getting harassed by the local government
…or about catching Covid-19.
Antisemite
You clearly aren’t educated on the subject. And clearly aren’t from here. There’s no enforcing, and no way to enforce.
Correction – there’s no non-arbitrary enforcing.
There is plenty of arbitrary enforcement. Jewish neighborhoods were made “red zones” for COVID rates lower than the one we’re now ignoring from NJ
way lower
I flew from FLL-JFK on chol hamoed and nobody mentioned anything about quarantine.
Dan, the premise of your post seems to indicate that “not quarantining” is the norm when visiting the tri-state area and there is no enforcement so why bother. We have seen the worst of Covid in the tri-state area. I dont think making light of our quarantine requirements is responsible. If you visit New York, then do your part to keep us safe. We have seen too many sick and been to too many funerals already.
Nope.
Making rules without enforcement is never a good idea. After all, who wouldn’t speed if there was no threat of a ticket?
But my premise is that if there is a rule and it really is based on science, then keep to it. Making exceptions or rule changes when it’s convenient means that the rule was a farce in the first place.
If there were kids playing on the side of the street, you may rethink speeding even if there was no threat of a ticket. The quarantine is to keep people safe. And while maybe a traveler wont get caught, they should still do the right think.
And while the cutoffs may the arbitrary, the idea that you want to restrict travel from places of higher infection rate to lower infection rate still sounds like good science to me. Dont throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Higher infection rate, sure. But these are based on higher case rate, which just means that states with more tests are being punished.
I argued in the Chicago post why basing quarantines on total COVID cases was a nonsense metric:
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/illinois-covid-19-cases-climbing-will-chicago-require-14-day-quarantine-anyone-recently-illinois-wrong-metric-used/
Now Connecticut has changed their requirements to require a 5% positivity rate as well. This makes sense, but proves it has been a farce until now, and not based on science.
And NY/NJ are just being hypocritical at this point by keeping the same standard but conveniently exempting themselves from that standard.
One of the few smart things Mayor Turner of Houston said during the pandemic when Governer Abbot outlawed enforcing local COVID laws: “A law without enforcement is just a statement”.
thats why Florida wont come off NY list until a 14 day period of 0 covid cases worldwide!
Ha. Just add to the crazy long list of reason why NJ sucks. If it wasn’t for the sizeable Jewish community I’d be long Long gone
Why is a sizeable Jewish community a reason to stay somewhere? There are plenty of great communities in cities across the country.
Once you live there and try somewhere else (long-term), it’s understandable to make such a statement.
I’ve lived in LA and NYC for years. Wouldn’t go back to live there if you paid me.
Even if we paid you in miles? 🙂
I think he means sizeable orthodox Jewish communities. Some people prefer to be surrounded by those who are culturally similar to them. I’m only familiar with the communities near Nanuet, Orange County, Brooklyn. I’m not sure where else in the U.S.
Mark, I’ll echo other comments as to unsure what a “sizeable Jewish community” is and what difference it makes? Chicago, LA, Eretz Yirsroel, South Florida all have sizeable Jewish communities. Perhaps Detroit, Cincinnati, Denver– not as much, but you’ll live a much better lifestyle, and have every frum resource at hand.
@Dave LA is just as (or more) expensive as most NY Metro Jewish communities, taxes are at least as high, local politics are similar so what are you really getting? The way I see it it’s better weather but less options for chinuch.
Right off the Holland Tunnel after Ext 1 the NYPD set up a checkpoint. For anyone coming from NJ stopping cars randomly.
It’s great to hear you speaking like this Dan, on the forums you sometimes sound like you’re pro all this nonsense.
Define nonsense please.
I’ve stated many times that I’m pro masks. I think they are a worthy investment with a high ROI as it sure beats having to close down businesses and schools.
But the government loses credibility in situations like the now hypocritical tri-state quarantine list.
Until the hypocrisy came out, would you say this rule is nonsense…? Same applies for most rules!
And regarding masks it happens to be there’s a lot of doctors say it’s unhealthy to wear them, just most of them get silenced by big tech under the excuse “covid false info etc”…
Sure, I made the argument why quarantine based on total positive cases was bad science here:
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/illinois-covid-19-cases-climbing-will-chicago-require-14-day-quarantine-anyone-recently-illinois-wrong-metric-used/
Don’t take my pointing out government hypocrisy as saying that our Doctors are in on some massive conspiracy to get people to wear masks.
If masks were actually unhealthy then Doctors would have been getting ill or dropping dead for years. Amazing how surgeons thrive despite wearing masks all day long 🙄
Maybe some things are silenced because they really are just conspiratorial nonsense?
not a conspiracy. let me ask you this when is the end of the masks? bec the way its going i think the answer is more then likely 1-2 years at minimum and never for some institutions/people. people have become so psychologically damaged from this virus.
C’mon.
Hopefully in the next 6 months there are mass vaccinations and the pandemic will be over, at least in the US.
What doctors say it is unhealthy to wear masks and why?
This does not match any of the studies I have seen. Please share the ones that say masks are bad.
There was a news conference recently with a few prominent doctors in front of the supreme Court and they said to reject masks. Now obviously it wasn’t reported anywhere.
Oh it was reported all right…sometimes quacks are just quacks though.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/stella-immanuel-trumps-new-covid-doctor-believes-in-alien-dna-demon-sperm-and-hydroxychloroquine
Seriously, I feel bad for anyone that really thinks that 99.9% of Doctors got together to make us all wear masks that will harm us, for some undisclosed nefarious reason. If it might help keep our kids in school I’ll wear a mask all day long if I have to.
My point is not to say which doctors are right or to choose sides. My point is that there is 2 sides to this discussion and it’s definitely not a must, at one point even the CDC’s reason to wear masks was
1. If you cough it’s covered.
2. You touch your face less
3. It makes you feel good.
And the reason people are idolizing masks is because it’s being politicized and part of the government power grab… just like these rules you’re talking about in this article!
There’s a reason surgeons wear masks. It’s not because of politics.
Anyway, not going to hash this out again:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HLrm0pqBN_5bdyysOeoOBX4pt4oFDBhsC_jpblXpNtQ/edit
Don’t forget to wear your tinfoil hat.
they wear masks to prevent big droplets from entering an unconscious defenseless person on an operating table. in a reg setting if you need to cough cover your mouth with your elbow like cdc recommended. as far as the masks stopping airborne particals i dont agree that it can. maybe a fitted n95 might. but a regular mask aint going to stop a virus particle thats this small. there was never a double blinded study done on masks, thats seems to be the standard these days with every argument on medicines. mask i believe may help potentially in certian settings but for gen use i dont think its so useful. im sure you youll have a debunking article to share on the latest cdc study/poll done last week on masks saying that 74% of people who contracted the virus were always wearing a mask.
i dont think its right to call the frontline doctors quacks. these doctors are putting their careers on the line to speak out. dr simone gold is a real board certified physician plus shes an attorney. the science is far from set on masks. i guess dr atlas is a quack too? twitter just deleted one his tweets. if masks were so important stopping disease then why havent weve been wearing them all along for flu? why did dr fauci say dont wear masks at the beginning (i know his anaswer he gave ) and he was explaining in a 60 min interview of why you shouldnt be walking around with a mask. why did the WHO say dont wear a mask if your healthy? they didnt change that stanse till june i believe.
the front line doctors are also trying to promote hcq which there are now over 45 studies showing efficasy.
Quacks
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HLrm0pqBN_5bdyysOeoOBX4pt4oFDBhsC_jpblXpNtQ/edit
Also it was not June:
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/coronavirus/federal-social-distancing-guidelines-extended-april-30th-time-masks4all-will-antibody-tests/
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/coronavirus/president-trump-cdc-now-recommends-everyone-wear-masks-outside-will-wear-one/
And we know the reason they said not to wear masks, because doctors needed the PPE.
i read the article you shared and i find it funny they chose to focus on the one doctor at the summit that was ripe for perfect character assassination campaign. there were a number of other doctors there that were giving there experiences and expertise on everything covid related.
the media foucus was on mask,hcq and one doctor that they went after for her beliefs bec she was an easy target.
if fauci was lying in regard to masks ( and the SG btw also gave a whole speech on why we shouldn’t by masks which btw is part of the reason the anti mask people believe too) then he lost his credibility, bec why should we believe anything that comes out of his mouth? especially since he lied to us at such a crucial time and according to joe biden and experts could of saved thousands of lives. i believe the SG and fauci was telling truth about masks back then and i also believe they said that publicly and later reversed paths bec they didnt want the mask to run out.
as far as trump not taking hcq that i cannot answer i do know he believes in it, he took another medicine that seemed to have worked excellent “regeneron”.
Funny how even Trump didn’t take HCQ when he was diagnosed with COVID19…
Yes, the rule was nonsense from day one. Remember when Commie Cuomo said that Florida’s quarantine on NY visitors (when they were having 5k to 10k cases a day) was “illegal”, And then reciprocated it back on them? It’s been politics from day one. NY had all its citizens dying in the beginning, worse than any other state, and now tries to pretend that they did a great job. Commie Cuomo time and time again claimed that his rules were based on “science” and all of a sudden when the shoe didn’t fit anymore thru science out the window. He claims it’s not possible to check all the cars? Well I have an idea, why doesn’t he call the National Guard to help? Oh right, he did, for all the other states!
I’ve traveled from MIA to both LGA and JFK numerous times. Just like you Dan, it was only for a one day trip. On the health form on NY’s Coronavirus website (that can be filled out instead of the paper form), if you click that NY “isn’t your final destination,” it’s pretty much an automatic “free (OFFICIAL) pass” to not be required to quarantine. And they can’t really track you down with an address (bc they don’t ask for one if it’s not the final destination), nor do they keep tabs on future travel/airlines tickets.
The fact that he is unable to get data from sources such as Homeland Security and other agencies shows how illegal what he is doing is. Commie is using executive privilege (which he probably doesn’t legally have) to force whatever he possibly can on the citizens of NY. Easy to do when him and his cohorts are all thier high horses.
Washington DC has a similar rule. If I go to Florida , I’d have to quarantine for two weeks upon my return. Once I saw that the Washington Nationals flew down to play Miami and didn’t quarantine (they then played at home a few days later) I said: “F these draconian rules.”
I’m sick of all this nonsense! I need a place to move to out of the tri-state for a heimish young couple… What’s your idea?
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=21675.0
Aside from the unnecessary inconvenience, it erodes public trust when the government acts in ways that are illogical and hypocritical. Then when they say to wear masks, get tested or take a vaccine people assume it is a bunch of fake just like their quarantine rules.
Why is this hypocrisy?
“Cost Benefit Analyses”
NY doesn’t put their neck on the line to benefit “outsiders”.
They do take risks when they feel personal benefit warrants taking the risk.
Once upon a time this was about saving lives. I guess now it’s about money.
People risk lives for money etc. “בנפשו יביא לחמו”.
Do you expect NYS to risk lives for somebody else’s money etc.?
You know that tourists bring billions annually to NYC’s economy, right? That hundreds of thousands of NYCers count on those tourists for their livelihood, right?
Is this about money or is this about saving lives, make up your mind!
The real absurdity is that NY is giving a pass on this issue because so many NewJerseyites work in NYC. Since when did affecting workers matter. NYC was on lockdown for months with no such concern for NewYorkers.
Quite honestly should a NewYorker cry crocodile tears for a NewJerseyite that uses NY as a daily abode and place to work but pays almost nothing to the budget? The commuter tax was ruled illegal years ago and there were no further attempts. NYC has demonstrated that NewJerseyites cause vehicular traffic, use ambulance calls, some use mass transit, essentially make use of everything in NYC but taxes.
Absurdity is making an exception to the rules for people that only cost money.
Um..if they work in NY they pay NYS income tax. If they work from home they do not have to pay NYS income tax….
yes, but!
I stand corrected regarding NYS Income tax. I live in NYC, I support all NYC services. Those living elsewhere but working in NYC do not pay anything for the NYC services. They are exempt from NYC Income tax.
All commuters who work in NY pay NY state income tax. In fact, they don’t pay NJ tax on that income, but still use NJ services as they live in NJ. So it’s NJ that’s losing out in that case.
In fact, NYS is pretty draconian in enforcing this. Even if you work from home mostly, and just come in 14 days a year to NY, you will have to pay NY tax.
“Of course it would be absurd for New Jersey to tell everyone who has been to New Jersey recently to quarantine.”
Did you mean
Of course it would be absurd for NY to tell everyone who has been to New Jersey recently to quarantine.
Nope
Cuomo never really cared. It was all a PR move to change the discussion. Every time a state is added or removed from the list he gets to make the announcement which between the lines he is saying look how great I am keeping NY safe.
How come Hasidic communities have seen infection rates go up lately and how come they don’t like to quarantine?
Who does like to stay locked up in their house for 14 days?
its not just those communitys with infections rate going up its other non jewish communitys as well and the governor not targeting them. for months there has been party flyers circulating through non jewish communitys advertising huge nightclub style partys. again no one seems to care about that.
I arrived via LGA 2 weeks ago and had to show that I filled out the online health form. I was called by a real person about every other day on average, but I don’t know if they’re actually enforcing.
I see the point that e.g. the Chicago rule is hypocritical if it prevents Illinoisans from going, but imo it still makes sense to limit the spread as much as possible by maintaining the restrictions even if certain areas get exempted.
It’s hypocritical. That’s why CT changed the rules.
Hypocrisy undermines trust in government.
“ Ohio was added just before my trip, but as it was just a day trip, I was exempt from the quarantine. I had zero issues driving from Newark into Brooklyn, Manhattan, and Queens and was never informed about the quarantine at any point.”
This is incorrect and is selfish behavior. Quarantine is only not required if you have spent less than 24 hours in a restricted state. People in states with a high infection rate do not get a free 24 hour pass to come and potentially spread Covid as they please.
Wrong.
https://covid19.nj.gov/faqs/nj-information/travel-and-transportation/which-states-are-on-the-travel-advisory-list-are-there-travel-restrictions-to-or-from-new-jersey
Does not apply under 24 hours. NY confirmed the same rule applies there.
I’ve been flying regularly into ny/nj since June and never once been required to register for quarantine. On occasion they’ve made an announcement about it, but no one listened.
I’ve flown in and out and have never quarantined.
When a three-week lockdown to flatten the curve became permanent public policy, and when tens of thousands of looters (some of whom also were protesting something) were judged non-infectious, I understood that sanity had long ago flown out the window.
At this point, quarantining is silly.
STOP TESTING!!
Testing tells people to quarantine, which has proven to slow the spread.
I’m glad you are finally acknowledging the hypocrisy of this all. It took months- and I waited and commented continuously.
Welcome to the dark side Daniel.
Revisionist history.
I’ve called out hypocrisy the entire time, including Cuomo and DeBalsio in many posts, the Chicago quarantine hypocrisy, Fauci lying to save PPE for doctors, and more.
I’m not afraid to have nuanced arguments. We’re in a real pandemic that will take real action, but that doesn’t give the government the right to be hypocrites.
Amen. Or to make disastrous anti-semitic decisions that will have a ripple effect throughout the country-which it already has.
The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I’m from the government, and I’m here to help.”
– Ronald Reagan
The government should not be shutting our shuls, our businesses, our yeshivos, our lives. Now that they’ve opened Pandoras Box, there will always be a clue in to shutting us down in the future- for ANY reason.
#MAGA
I remain shocked that no court has yet struck down the NY/NJ/CT rules as being unconstitutional. The Supreme Court has repeatedly enforced the right to interstate travel.
These state laws were always legally tenuous, and now that they’re illogically enforced, they can’t possibly pass legal muster.
https://www.gibsondunn.com/the-constitutional-consequences-of-governmental-responses-to-covid-19-the-right-to-travel-and-the-dormant-commerce-clause/
I’m also surprised. But has anyone challenged them in court?
I flew from a European orange zone country into JFK, not a single agent at the airport asked us where we can from and where we are quarantining.
These rules are absurd as they don’t even bother trying to enforce them
i was in Texas for the chagim and except work i stay home, however the texas rate is now lower than NY but was not taken off of the list
Laughable.
I live in NJ. I’ve been trying to get out for years. I don’t work in NY, but go there for various reasons. Will they stop me now when I go off the Goethals Bridge? What if I promise to agree that the Statue of Liberty is really theirs?
Wow, this site’s comments makes me see why so many of you support Trump. Always the whining victims…it must be terrible to always think (or at least SAY that you think) everyone is out to get you. G-D FORBID you take any responsibility for yourselves!
I flew from CT (I live in MA) to Saint Thomas requiring an overnight in Puerto Rico, and back from Saint Thomas to CT. Puerto Rico required a quarantine if you didn’t have a COVID test within 72 hours before leaving, and I planned (and got one) because I was overnight ING there. MA was below 1%, and I was fine for Saint Thomas until the governor of the Virgin Islands changed the rules 3 days before I left. Both this places were ultra serious about maintaining quarantine and seeing your negative COVID test. MA has a travel rule requiring quarantine once you get back into the state from pretty much anywhere unless you have a COVID test within 72 hours of flying back. You must fill out a form, BUT they don’t make you upload the test-they rely on your word of honor! And no one did anything at all when I landed at Bradley-although they now have a COVID testing site right at the airport and it was open when we landed (close to midnight!)
I agree with all of the above. I don’t even understand how they determine the arbitrary metric. “10 COVID positive cases per 100,000 residents over a 7-day rolling average”; 10 cases per 100,000 is 1 basis point (it’s 1% of 1%).
Am I misunderstanding something? They are basically saying if anyone in a state has tested positive for Covid the state is deemed high risk? Very strange.
NJ issued in state travel “advisory”