On The Topic Of KSMLs; Not Having A Reserved Kosher Meal Costs Lufthansa How Much?!?

Ok…..I know This Is sad…..but i do like airline kosher food. Some of them are not too bad.

I once bought a snack on delta and the stewardess told me it doesnt have a hechsher!

A couple of years back I flew on Air Canada from Montreal to Frankfurt in coach. Before they started meal service, the flight attendant brought me my kosher meal. Unfortunately, the foil was punctured, which meant that I could not use it as it was no longer properly double sealed (a common problem). When I pointed this out to the flight attendant and asked her if she had another one that was not damaged, she said “You really can’t eat this? We held the flight for this single kosher meal”. She really felt bad that she damaged it in the handling. I was impressed that they actually held the flight until they made sure that they got the kosher meal on the plane. I did not request any compensation. They really did try their best.

Is that the only photo of your Oslo trip that we’ll see on DDMS?
😉

This guy must be a professional kvetcher!

It should be noted that if you book a flight on United and then change your flight online, the kosher meal will NOT change to your new flight. It’s a computer glitch. I finally was told that piece of information by a manager after having been told by the stewardess in business class on a flight to Israel that I did not order a kosher meal even after telling her that I did and that my United profile shows kosher!

The worst KSML I’ve ever had was on Aerosvit airlines ( now defunct Ukrainian carrier) from TLV to KBP (Kiev Borispol. It was from Belguim if I remember correctly. The meal was supposed to be some sort of fish in a previous lifetime that was chemically preserved NOT FROZEN!! B”H it was only a 3.5 hr. Flight and I wasn’t counting on the kosher meal.

Thanks for posting this! I really enjoy reading your content (TRs, tutorials, articles like these).

Mr. Kopfler may have “gained” $1400 and some miles. The Chillul Hashem he caused is immeasurable.

Flew Korean Air first and the food was pretty good (Hermolis) and plentiful. I bought ticket a hour before flying out of BKK and they somehow managed to have kosher food!

On Turkish Airlines, I got the food frozen solid. Can’t be reheated because it’s already open.

I took several domestic flights years ago (when meals were still included) and they had the nerve to tell me that I didn’t order the kosher meal. I would have been more tolerant if they had admitted their mistake.
Funniest experience was about 18 years ago on a business trip from New York to Atlanta. As the flight was on 17 Tammuz, I did not order a meal, but I really wasn’t feeling well that day. As I boarded, I took the breakfast package from the stewardess. Contents: Lenders bagel, cream cheese, orange juice, and a banana.
All kosher.

The best KSML I’ve had was on Aeroflot airlines from SVO (Moscow) to JFK. It was from Hermolis in GB and almost 20 years later I still remember how good it was.

I got American Airlines in Manchester airport to make up for the missing meal.since I was in the airport 5 hours before the flight I had plenty of time on my hands… I was the first to check in and when she notified me that the Ksml won’t be on board I asked her to pls make it happen. She said they can’t because it needs to defrost for 24 hours. So I suggested they go to the Jewish stores and pick up something for me. They had no plans to. So I told them since I have so much time on my hands I will sit down and write to corporate offices.only once they saw me sitting and writing did a manager appear (earlier they said no manager available) and she arranged for the airline to pay for a taxi to and from the Kosher stores and gave me 60 British Pounds to spend on food.
I bought some really yummy treats for myself to take back to USA!

Flew CX HKG-JFK in C. Not only did the Hermolis meal look EXACTLY like yours – it tasted as if it was also prepared on the same day (i.e. five years ago) – there’s a difference between a Hermolis meal served ex London to one served after sitting in a far eastern freezer for several years. The former actually are quite good.

I’ve never had a Lewis meal on Singapore but I have had them in biz and once in First in QF – they were barely edible.

Can you explain the double wrapping that you do for BYOK. Do you just ask the vendor to do a double wrap of aluminum foil or do you get something more? (That’s not a gotcha Halacha question I’m just wondering what can be done. (Besides I doubt R. Chaikin is on this thread!))

Fruits on board aren’t always a possibility as I once discovered.
I was 4+ months pregnant. We were flying MAN to NY with switchover in Philadelphia. It was the first time my husband convinced me not to take much backup food. So I just brought a tradition soup. First flight had no Kosher meals on board. I was feeling really sick and needed to eat. But the soup was just making it worse. I was so weak… In Philadelphia everything was delayed. My husband spoke to a manager who couldn’t even offer us a voucher for the news/fruitstand. But he made special arrangements for me to be provided with fruits from first class once the flight is in the air.
We finally get on the flight and the head steward came over and notified us that he is aware of my situation and was granted special permission to receive fruit from 1st class. As soon as we’re in the air and he can open the galley he will bring some for me.
The flight takes off and this head steward came back to notify me… You’re ready for this?
“I understand special permission has been given, but there is one rule that is NEVER to be broken. That is – no thing from first class can go to economy and nothing from economy can go to first class. Therefore I have no way for you to eat the fruit. So have a nice day.”
NO JOKE!!!

@LIAM KNUJ:
Can you tell me one intelligent reason why this is such a chillul hashem?
@lamomma:
The funny thing is that if you had ordered a KSML, it probably would’ve been worse.

I actually don’t always find KSMLs to be so bad. (For me, personally, bringing food is never a problem. It’s the milk for coffee they gets annoying.)

I give kudos to Isaac Knopfler for going the length and suing. We have all been taking the abuse (by the airlines AND THE KOSHER CATERERS) for way too long.

I am especially puzzled when I see KSML that many kosher consumers would not touch, even if it were outstandingly delicious. I am referring to KSML that includes non Cholov Yisroel and KSML that relies on Heter Mechira.

On a DL flight JFK-SVO in J there was actually a very decent 3 course KSML. However, the appetizer served to my wife was simply spoiled. Upon returning home I complained to DL about the meal (and about the narrow lie flat seats on their 767) and each of us got $100 Amazon (which I think beats any compensation they could give in skypesos – or for that matter almost all airline devaluable currencies).

All of the above being said. I NEVER rely on the airline for a KSML I might actually consume, if it’s there, I consider it a bonus.

China Southern. 29 hours. 3 flights. No food even after we confirmed at the ticket counter in NY.

Also they don’t allow infant seats on the plane even though we had ticketed seat for our children.

PS the way back wasn’t much better as they swore the airline doesn’t allow the plastic ovenproof bags in the oven.

PPS @Dan Chinese fruit they served on the airplane was completely tasteless.

I flew British Airways ewr to lhr first class the meal they gave me was frozen not edible….they called me next day to apologise and received right away 8k miles…. Thats without complaining!!!
The steward gave complain as we landed!!!
BA always look after their customers!!
Never had problem with them but did have with lufthansa!!!

@D: No, I can’t tell you one intelligent reason why what Mr. Kopfler did was a Chillul Hashem, because apparently it would be a pointless and futile effort.

What food can i expect from united ewr to hnl in business ? Should i be specific with them?

i think the best advice is to always prepare yourself- i always buy sushi prior to flying and some bagels and nosh. best to bring along so that you are covered! i never rely on the meals served- they look gross and tastes horrid!

@LIAM KNUJ:
What are you thinking??? What’s the Chillul Hashem?

@Moyo:
8K miles to them is probably a lot less than the cost of an economy non-kosher meal!

How much are 8K Avios worth to you?

last week i flew to Switzerland with united in business class and didnt got any kosher meal i complaint true their website and now i am waiting for a email response will see what will happen…STAY TUNED

@anonymous 8k ba avios can take you one way nyc-fll its better then nothing

I definitely do enjoy good food but I generally don’t find kosher airline food to be that bad. Take what’s available. You need to remember that, unless you live on an airplane, you can just make do with what’s available for those hours. That said, I always bring along some food to keep me going in case my KSML doesn’t show up, or the hechsher is not something I know to be trustworthy, or in case of delays etc.

One of the best KSMLs I’ve had was on Turkish. Their dairy meals from the kosher caterer in Istanbul were really delicious, especially the cheese.

My experiences with Air Canada is that they will not heat up BYO foods brought on board. Alitalia was gracious enough!

Pure pure Chillul HaShem. Disgusting.

I always make sure to take food along from home because you just never know! NuGo bars, fruit, trail mix, crackers or pretzels w/ individual pb containers–I can’t tell you how many times these have come in handy.

Stofel is is kosher l’Pesach year round

@LIAM KNUJ
The only chillul Hashem is the chreft caterers who take the airlines money and then serve their fellow yidden garbage.

We are in the middle of a drama – yet to be played out – in which we booked a cheap, one way ticket for my son on Norwegian Airlines, back in October of ’15. When I went on the site to reserve Kosher meals, lo and behold — no kosher meals! Halal-yes; vegetarian – yes; but no Kosher menu! And this is for an international flight out of Ben Gurion Airport! I called them to check, sure that this was an error, only to be informed that in fact, THEY DO NOT OFFER A KOSHER MENU OPTION. I let them know in no ncertain terms how upset I was, condidering it is an international flight with a 4 1/2 hour layover. I told them I was going to register a formal complaint about this shocking disregard gir the Kosher consumer. (PS i did not) Fast forward to March ’16: I went on the site to see about registering the flight for Norwegian’s FF program and — what do ya know – voilà – they are now offering Kosher meals!! Gee — how did that happen!! Let’s see what they actually serve ,– stay tuned!!

united issued a $75 travel certificate for missing the ksml on a partner flight issued under united stock (UA E-Ticket) even not a code share..
But I dont see that to be so generous…

My wife and I went to Aruba in 1999 for our honeymoon. We flew Aruban from EWR to AUA. We were glad they had kosher meals available and we pre-ordered them for both flights. The meal on the way there was okay. The meal on the way back was certified Kosher for Passover – only problem is that our trip was at the end of AUGUST!!!!. Good thing that it was from the same year.

I guess they don’t get too much kosher traffic to Aruba except for pesach programs.

yes Norwegian offers kosher meals but you need to pay for them! even you buy the flex fare which includes the meal (including “Halal”)

Delta NYC-EU J, pretty decent KSML
UA NYC-EU J, aaceptable KSML
A”A NYC-EU horrible KSML
Swiss air ZRH-NYC, horrible KSML
LOT JFK-WAW acceptable KSML
Austrian VIA-NYC horrible KSML

@LIAM KNUJ:
Nothing intelligent? Didn’t think so. Don’t worry; you don’t have to be coherent, as long as you’re passionate. Best wishes.

@Faigy T.:
you sound like a real jerk ya know that

Iberia compensated me 25000+ avios after several months of back and forth after first having the audacity to tell me that my aircraft was switched which is why my meals in J weren’t on board. My follow up letter to corporate in Madrid was duplicated in Spanish so there was no way for them to avoid responding. I had no luck though on the taxes portion of my tickets so I just got worn out of fighting.

Best kosher was on Air France from Paris. The food was fresh never frozen. I believe it came from a Belgian caterer. Nothing sophisticated but very fresh and tasty. Simple potato salad tasted like at home.
Worst food was Stogel long life (expires in 2 years) on Air Berlin. Everything tastes the same and delivers an instant belly ache.

@ Mikey
and delivers an instant belly ache 🙂 +1

ALOL

I once flew Iberia Madrid to Miami. As part of the meal, they served kosher pate made in Poland. I opened it up and it looked just like a can of cat food. Neither my wife and I touched the stuff.
A couple of months later, a friend asked what airline did we fly on that trip. I said, “Iberia.” Without skipping a beat, he asked, “How did you like the cat food?”
I once flew Alitalia Miami-Tel Aviv and back. The main meal was two (2) chicken meat balls on a large bed of white rice. Who would want to be fleishig after eating that?
Thanks for the tip of asking the stewards to heat up my meal. I once asked years ago and they said no. After your experiences, I will try again.

@dans fan:
I am not sure 8,000 Avios are better than nothing if the goal is to travel NYC-FLL. You would have to find availability on a flight with a stop in CLT (must be a flight that takes you all the way with same flight number, or else it’s double the Avios). I would rather pay for a nonstop (and no, I wouldn’t want to fly into MIA).

As Dan points out many times, these points are a huge money maker for the airlines. There’s a real reason why they carry them on their books at a small fraction of what they sell them for – it’s a currency with very limited usage, which can be devalued on a whim. (Doesn’t have to be like AS just devalued regarding EKG, they can just limit availability a-la DL).

I would take a $100 amazon GC or even a $75 UA voucher over 8,000 Avios in a heartbeat. I am not sure where my tipping point might be to prefer the miles over the GC.

I recently flew with y husband and 4 children from TLV to US on Air France with a stopover in Paris. Our flight from TLV to Paris did not have our requested kosher meals and I asked the stewardess to call ahead to make sure our connecting flight has the kosher meals, which she did. Then we went to the ticket counter at CDG in Paris to confirm that we had kosher meals, which they did. Of course, they did not and we spent the next 6 hours eating some junk that I brought along. I complained to the stewardess who, while very apologetic, was unable to help. The next day, without asking further or getting a chance to write to corporate, we received an email with an apology and $100 credit on our next flight on Air France for each person. Not that great, but impressive as they extended this without any prompting.

It’s a travesty that there are some among us who believe that if they do something legal or something otherwise halachacly permissible, then it is not possible that what they are doing, or the result of what they are doing, is or may very well become a Chillul Hashem.
Thankfully, there are many more among us who do think twice.

@LIAM KNUJ: totally!!! That is what I am thinkjng

4 years back we (gramps, daddy, mommy, and 3 kids 6,2, and newborn) flew Alitalia TLV > Newark with a stopover.

One, I repeat one kosher meal for the first name on our ticket reservations !!!
They scrounged around and fed us but it was rather trying…go explain to little kids why they need to starve on a 17 hour trip.

That was the good part… the flight back was cancelled as we were waiting at the gate !

Go with the flow, Baruch Hashem the kids were so good !!

@D: The inability to understand a statement does not necessarily make the statement “not coherent”. Rather, it may cery well be a reflection of the person exhibiting the difficulties in understanding the statement.

Over the years (like 40) been traveling a bit.
US domestic kosher meals are basically a bad joke.
Very rarely is the food (when provided) edible.
Also its annoying and aggravating when the Hechsher
will not allow mezonot rolls, but a hard as rock golfball size roll, is ok and lets not forget the omelet and cream cheese are always non cholov yisroel.
So basically your left with frozen old fruit cocktail.
Hoorah for the ones who sit at their desks and decide that his chumra is more important than our health!

Most Hermolis meals are good, and usually decent portions even in coach.They are a standard by which all kosher should be judged.
It would be nice if they could teach Kosher catering to other airline suppliers.

The best kosher food I have ever had has been on LH First from Frankfurt to JFK. The BA offerings [Hermolis-Kedassia] in First/Business and Economy out of London are also consistently good as, in my experience, is food on SWISS out of Zurich. I travel extensively and always go prepared in case the meal does not turn up. When that happens a politely worded email to Customer Service telling them how much I appreciate the provision of a special kosher meal, and how much I missed it on this occasion, invariably elicits a pleasant response and some offer of compensation, which I thank the airline for, whatever it is. There are many planets in the universe and obviously some of those who read and contribute to this blog live on a different planet from me. I would never ever dream of suing for some poor employee’s mistake in not loading my meal. Some of us heilige Yidden simply do not understand how obnoxious and arrogant we can come across as. How to relate to the umos haolam and practice “Asher bachar banu mikol ha’amim” means different things to different people!

@LIAM KNUJ:

Agreed, for every pro there’s a con. I flew Lufthansa in coach a few years back from NYC to Germany (on the way to Israel) and they forgot my Kosher meal.

Imagine my delight when the stewardess appeared a few minutes later with a business class Kosher meal, that was absolutely edible!

So not everything is black and white, and we don’t have to run to sue at every opportunity.

LH does not put their own flight # on LX ZRH SAO not that there is any other long haul int’ route that I am aware that LH codeshare with LX

LH might of been the issuer of the ticket and therefore was acting as a travel agent

@LIAM KNUJ: Chilul HaShem doesn’t apply here at all! This is a purely commercial transaction, the airline charges for the meal as part of their fee, and failed to provide it. They needed a lesson and he taught it. The shame is that once upon a time, Hermolis was THE purveyor of kosher meals to the industry and their service was, and still is, excellent. All these companies that now “compete” with Hermolis by undercutting Hermolis pricing by providing unacceptable quality, they are the ones to blame. If us, orthodox travellers, were more vocal about our preferences, it would go a long away to restore Hermolis quality service to most airlines like it use to be.

I would speculate, based on my experience, that there is about a 60% chance overall that your confirmed kosher meal will actually be loaded on a Delta domestic flight. Much depends on the airport that you are flying out of. To one degree or another, I rely on my KSML whenever the airline has confirmed it. Even when the meal is loaded, it is often either still frozen or else inedible and/or totally unappetizing in one way or another. Each time there is an issue with the meal, I complain to the airline. I have sent three of my children r/t to yeshiva in EY on award tickets solely using miles I have been compensated because of real reasonable issues with my KSML. I have no problem with letting the airline know my experience each time. They have guaranteed me this service, I have relied on their guarantee, and they did not deliver. Suing an airline for this is extreme and out of proportion, in my opinion, but that doesn’t mean the complaint is not 100% justified. Imagine if the airline did not load any meals for the entire rest of the first/business section. There would be a riot on the plane and heads would roll at airline catering. The way I look at it, if its not ok for everyone else’s meal to be messed up, why is it somehow acceptable for them to mess up mine? After this happened multiple times – a fact I noted in one complaint – the Delta customer rep replied that they are sorry and will try and fix it, but suggested that I should bring some of my own food on the plane in the future in case it happens again! Yes, I thought, and perhaps I should bring a folding chair with me everytime I fly, in case they forgot to load my seat. For the many of us whose jobs have us traveling over multiple days, to places where there are no kosher restaurants or facilities to purchase a prepared meal, getting an airline meal (especially a hot one) can be significant indeed. It is a shame that airlines do not adequately appreciate the importance and significance this “perq” can have for the kosher traveler. When this happens on Delta, the FAs feel so bad that you can’t eat the regular meal instead, that they kill you with kindness for the rest of the flight trying to make it right. Honestly, their care and concern more than makes up for the missed meal.

@Dan I understand that operating and ticketing carriers sometimes don’t communicate well, but seeing as Lufthansa and Swiss both speak German, I don’t think ‘lost in translation’ is a fair excuse! ;). In all seriousness though, LX is a wholly-owned subsidiary of LH.

So i was flying from Addis ababa to Rome , and i see this guy next to me also got a KSML, so I strike a convo, and he tells me he is not jewish or even follows any religious diet , so i ask him why does he order a Ksml,
his reply is that when he flies in Africa he feels kitchen are not hygienic ,and a Ksml assures him a higher standard , so go figure ,

Traveled business class Cathay Pacific NY-HK. The meal had good hashgacha, a turkey/pastrami sandwich and small stuff which included butter, cheese etc. We regret not taking photos. We first thought it must be tofutti but noticed it said dairy and didn’t eat. Another Yid though, thought it must be tofu and ate it. Then he came over to us and asked, do you know if that was dairy? He was so broken, we felt so sorry.

We did try to explain and tried to get the catering info for direct contact but no success. A $150 voucher was the answer. That was not what we wanted. We wished to alert the caterer but Cathay didn’t understand.

So be careful and have safe trips.

I once flew with Lufthansa from TLV to NY with a stopover in Germany, anyway, I asked the stewardess for coffee so this Jewish non-frum stewardess comes over and tells me that he overheard that I want coffee, I should be aware that they wash the urns in the sink together with the other non kosher plates and other utensils and since he sees that I am frum he wanted to bring it to my attention.

@deltaguy:
Given Delta’s generousity with award space, and the fact that you sent your boys to Eretz Yisroel during peak demand time, that must have been quite a few meals. Though you might have used them on AZ or AF which is more attainable.

here is the email i got from united
Dear Mr.. . . . . .

I would like to apologize for the inconvenience you experienced when
your special meal was not provided.

We understand the diverse dietary needs of our customers, and we offer a
variety of special meals in select markets. We do our best to honor each
request. If you have specific dietary requirements, you may consider
carrying your personal food choices onboard with you. Unfortunately we
are unable to honor your request for 50,000 miles.

While I am unable to reverse the inconvenience this caused, I will be
depositing 6,250 award miles into your account as a tangible expression
of our goodwill in the hopes that you will allow us the opportunity to
rectify this situation and regain your trust as an airline. Please allow
up to 10 business days for it to appear.

Your loyalty as a MileagePlus member means a lot to us. We appreciate
your business and look forward to serving you under more pleasant
circumstances.

Regards,

Richard Ufer
Customer Care
10212125

hi, DID ANYONE HERE FLY UNITED BUSINESS EWR-HNL RECENTLY, WHAT FOOD CAN BE EXPECTED?

I flew with British airways and called them up a week in advance to reserve a kosher meal, and I left the city early anouph that the sandwiches in the stores were not ready, so I left without food and was relying on the kosher meal, it was a connecting flight, and the kosher meal was ordered for the second flight and they had no meal for me, I complained and they gave me 2000 avios, I complained again and they said that they can’t help me.

I’ve once booked a Lufthansa connection flight TLV-FRA-JFK from Lufthansa.com, I have ordered KSML and my itinerary ticket had shown that as confirmed. However, they didn’t have my kosher meals on BOTH segments of the flight. I have filed a complaint and all I got was 2000 worthless Miles&More miles which expire after 12 months.

What kind of food are you allowed to take with you on the plane? Are you guys referring to sandwiches, or you are allowed to take with you food that contains liquid?

I actually gave up my glatt meal on an ELAL flight to London to a chasidic guy next to me. His flight had be cancelled to NY and was rebooked to new flights. He didn’t have food on him nor were glatt available for him. I Gladly gave him mine and the flight attendent really appreciated it. She gave me other stuff from business class as a gift plus it was a huge kiddush hashem.