Sure You Can Have A Free Bike…Just Sign At The Dotted Line. What Would You Do?

So not worth the hassle, Dan. May as well use some of your millions of credit card points for a stupid bike. Why risk fraud???

What will you do????

Sue them for False advertising…

Dan-

I never give out my SS security number.. not even to banks unless it’s absolutely mandatory. If it’s a nice to have, they aren’t getting it. For a bike? Absolutely no reason, even for an affidavit, that they would need your SS number. Is it to make sure you are ‘credit worthy’ enough to drive a 2 wheeler? 🙂

Will they allow you to sign the affidavit without giving your birthday and SSN?

I would just try to put a random SSN of course not my.
And see if it works.

Well it could be that your SSN is needed simply so they can send you a 1099 at the end of the year. Or it could be fraud… just expounding your options.

seems like they need it for tax reasons?

It’s not worth the Agmas nefesh of giving over your SS # for a free bike that you don’t know how to ride.

From a legal standpoint, the affidavit doesn’t say much. You are not really agreeing to anything other than to keep to the rules of the contest and a release against any claims you may have against them, which I don;t imagine you have any.

I would NOT however provide a SSN or DOB and there is no basis for them to require it. If they deny you based on that, you would then have a claim against them…

NEVER NEVER NEVER give your social!

So if I wrote the wrong social they can take my bike away? But from whom? They don’t have my social security number?

I don’t see why you have to give your social at all. Just fill it out with as much information as you’re willing to give and then send it in. If they aren’t willing to give you the bike, you can threaten that you’ll sue to enforce the contract you formed when accepting their offer for a free bike by getting 99 referrals.

Why not give fake social?

Agree with this
@Starwood Fan:

I would give my grandmothers social

Give fake social and Dob there is no way they have access to knowing if you gave them correct info. If they try send 1099 at end of the year then deal with it then

Not worth committing fraud for a single-speed bike.

But maybe I’ll send it back without SSN and DoB.

I would just leave out the ss number and fill the rest out

It looks like a legit company I would just try to put a random SSN or leave blank.
And see if it works.

its for their tax purposes.
part of business in the real world

122-55-9999 is my social.

In the spirit of the day (April 15th is 2 weeks away)
I don’t think they are ripping you off, lots of contests require it. It may be for tax purposes, if they plan on writing off these bike giveaways as part of their business expenses.
As an aside, you also would have to declare the bike’s retail worth on your taxes, and probably should if they have your SS # and are reporting it as that they gave it to you.

Asking for a birthday, SSN, address to be completed on an affidavit for winning a prize valued at $600 or more is common. Well, not only common but also necessary to meet the IRS reporting requirements for taxing prize winnings. Normally the official rules would state that the winner may have to complete an affidavit.

As for putting in fake info, if it is indeed an affidavit and you are signing before a notary that the information is true and correct then falsifying an affidavit is perjury. And while lies may be acceptable for some things lies on an affidavit are illegal.

This is one of the issues many new or unknown businesses face when giving away prizes of value significant enough to make the promotion worthwhile. People will gladly give this same info to a well-known company but the questions arise when it has to be given to claim a prize from a new or not well-known business.

Is there a risk? Absolutely. Just like there is a risk using a CC at any retailer these days.

They will need the SS and the DOB for the 1099, technically as you know redeeming airlines miles bears the same issue because its a taxable item that needs to be reported to the IRS. I think its not hte miles, but the value of the miles when they are sold…

Can’t you use your tax-id for a company as the ss and your real DOB, and company name. That way your SS is shielded and they have your tax-id…

@business:
The IRS only requires it for prizes of $600 or more, why would I trust my SSN with a startup?

@Dan:

Dan, surprised with all your CC’s and valuable online identity that you don’t have lifelock?

Ill give them mine if you won’t email me plz

Send back with blank ss and dob. Or, fill with nines.

They might want the DOB to see for themselves that you are in fact at least 18. The way they worded the prize description as a $399 store credit, do they really need your SSN for a 10-99?

@Dan: And how will they know if you make up a SSN? When I am going back to the original post, the referral link sends me to their home page so I don’t even see if it says anything about this but if it does not, report them to the FTC!

happy to see you figured out a way to mention sungames again on the man site😃

@Dan: They are probably going to claim the bike retails for that or more

Sure i’d sign it. I give my SSN out all the time.

I work with startups and my company gives away prizes (cash & non-cash) and works with crowdfunding etc. They shouldnt need a affidavit for this. Assuming the bike is valued at $600, they would only need to get a w9 from you so they can send a 1099 to you at the end of the year.

A w9 needs a SSN, but you could use a tax ID of one of your businesses instead

What’s silly about this is that they should just give you the bike for all the free advertising they got from your blog. By requiring this affidavit their whole marketing scheme just unraveled.

Hi All,

Brilliant here. Gershon is correct – we require SSN and DOB to 1099. People with companies can contact us about using EINs or other tax IDs: http://www.brilliant.co/contact-us

For security, we use an encrypted data room for storing files, and securely shred documents once 1099s are issued for this tax year.

I’d highly advise against giving out fake SSN’s – that’d constitute fraud and could result in headaches for both us and winners. The IRS is not a fun institution to deal with.

For what it’s worth, we’ve shipped out the first wave of 20 bikes to winners of the contest, and we’re rolling out more later this week.

It’s a free country, and you are certainly free to withhold as much information as you want, but we follow rules with compliance and taxation and so we don’t have much flexibility.

If you want more details, please email me!

Also, addressing some earlier comments about bounces:

We use http://sendgrid.com and http://mailchimp.com/ to power our emails. When an email bounces because of mistyping (negligence), fake emails (malice), or client-side settings, that damages our standing with ISPs and mail servers, and we are unable to count those emails as referrals.

In the cases where most bounces were a result of malice, users were disqualified entirely. On a case by case basis where we examined every single bounced email, if most bounces were a result of negligence or client-side settings, we assumed good faith and passed along a $200 credit on bikes. As a small company, these are not insignificant decisions for us to make.

At the end of the day, we are giving away almost 200 bikes to enthusiastic early supporters, and tens of thousands of dollars in credit. We had to make tough but realistic choices so we could stay in business and continue providing the products and services we do.

Please feel free to contact me with any questions. Thanks.

Thanks for commenting Kane.

Can you please clarify why you are issuing 1099s when the prize is under $600?

The IRS clearly states that it’s only for prizes “of at least $600”: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1099msc.pdf

Why go through the extra paperwork and possible security risks when it’s not required?

And are you really looking to promote my full name and image for your marketing?

Dan,

I am typically a subscriber of the belief, “if it’s too good to be true, then it probably is.” There is always a catch. Of all people, I would think you would guard your SS# more than most. I would try to contact them and make sure they won’t misuse your information. Then I might consider signing it. Outside of that, what in the world is a startup doing asking for affidavits and SS#. Is that even legal?

@Ben: only if its more than $600 and i dont believe its for products

@Kane@Brilliant.co: w9 not 1099.

@Dan: dan/kane, they should request a w9 if anything, not an affidavit. its seems a little far reaching. dan, people of your stature should specifically be careful what information they provide. obviously, fraud or misrepresentation is never acceptable but as mentioned here too, you may actually have a claim against them as they added new rules/terms and conditions which were not previously available and they “scammed” you into getting 100 email addresses/referalls

Id sigh but leave out my Ssn and Dob.

I know a company that will give you 5 thousand dollars for your ssn and dob. They advertise in the amI all the time.

@Chocolate:
The company rep commented above that its required.

@thejerseyguy:
😀

Notice how loquacious Kane@Brilliant.co has mysteriously gone silent since Dan asked him why he’s basing his ssn requirement on the IRS if the IRS actually does not require 1099 for less than $600?

Yeah, I would stay clear of these guys if I were you. These guys
bikesdirect.com are your best deal, excellent customer service, and most importantly straight up honest.

FWIW I spoke to Adam (CEO and Founder of Brilliant) on the phone today and as he explained it they just got in over their head. Not accounting for the DansDeals Effect they thought it would be a small promotion which they could afford. Unfortunately for them it escalated and they had to scramble to change terms and limit the free bikes. I choose to believe him. I do not see any malicious intent on his part.

As to the affidavit, it seems like they are headed in the right direction IRS-wise but I do not know. I am not an IRS expert. My guess is that it turns on their valuation of the product but I dont know. They clearly state the bike is $399 so will have to wait on them for an explanation.

Best of luck to them.

@Dov:
Please explain how they are “headed in the right direction IRS-wise.”
The IRS clearly states that a 1099 is only necessary for $600+ prizes.

It would seem to me that they got in over their heads (they should have stated a limit to how many bikes they were willing to give away, not a surprise that free bikes would go viral) and have added onerous terms and the affidavit process to limit the number of bikes they’ll have to give away.

In fact they even allowed free bike orders to be placed before implementing the affidavit requirement after orders were placed!

So much for goodwill from the promotion. That just went out the window.

We should start a crowd funding project to get Dan his bike provided he posts a video of him learning to use it (No SS# required).

I agree with you Dan. They have not generated goodwill with their actions and they were foolish to think they could offer free bikes and people wouldn’t be all over it. I have told them as much. I don’t know what they are doing with the 1099 – I took a guess but I know it doesn’t hold water. Will have to wait for one of them to chime in here and explain themselves. Kane started but he has to come back and finish.

@Mark:
Lol, I knew I shouldn’t have written on DDF that I’ve never been on a bike in my life 😉

@Dov:
I don’t think they have an answer other than my guess in comment 49, but feel free to call Adam back and let us know 🙂

The reason they ask for your SS# is that at the end of the year you will get a 1099 or W2 to show that you EARNED whatever the bike costs and you can be sure it will be a VERY HIGH “Manufacturers SUGGESTED RETAIL PRICE” so that they can take it OFF THEIR TAXES as an expense. and for you it becomes a TAXABLE INCOME.
I had it when I won a trip from FEDEX as a shipper. They sent me a 1099 FOR $10,000.00 at the end of the year. They charged me an astronomical amount for the airfare, hotels, taxis, etc…BEWARE!!! DON’T DO IT.!!

Hi all,

@Nate, haven’t been keeping up with comments since we’re answering personal emails as well as hello@brilliant.co emails – if you want faster responses, I can be reached there.

@Dan, I’m not a tax expert (just a bike designer) – we’re following recommendations from other ecomm companies counsel about issuing 1099s. Again, fastest way to get a response is our emails!

@Dov – we are in the process of shipping 200 free bikes – the first wave of which went out this AM. Again, the 1099 is based on official legal advice. We get affidavits, we ship, we issue, and we delete documents.

I appreciate the engagement of the community here – I’ll try to stay abreast, but email is always faster! Thanks.

Hi all,

I wanted to apologize for being so silent personally on any public forums. I have been trying to answer emails personally and do 1:1 calls, but that was clearly not a very effective way to spread information or try to fix some of the errors we had made.

First, and easiest, we were advised to use the affidavits. After not being appropriately prepared during the contest itself, we clearly went overboard in using the affidavits in an effort to have everything properly documented. @Dan is correct that the IRS limit is $600. We are in the process right now of destroying any SSN numbers that have been sent in already. Anyone who has won a prize worth less than $600 is not required to provide a SSN and we will destroy any that we receive in the future from those who have not seen this post. Anyone who won >1 bike will, though, be required to provide a SSN due the IRS tax code. I believe this is correct, but please chime in here if we are still not accurate on tax treatment.

More broadly, we were very unprepared for this contest. The biggest fear when starting a company is that no one will care about what you are doing, your product, or your story. We honestly thought there was a 50 / 50 chance we’d launch and hear only crickets.

Additionally, none of us are couponers or use deal sites often, so we simply had no idea how many people (many on this site) who would faithfully spread the word about us in return for a free bike. That was the intent of the contest and we are genuinely grateful for those who supported us.

We also did not anticipate the level of fraud and how many people would try to enter false email addresses. We naively assumed people would post to FB or Twitter and that would probably be the extent of their promotion. We assumed that because that’s what we have personally done for prior contests. We were wrong, clearly, and we got in over our heads plain and simple.

We’ve been trying to do right by our supporters and have been trying to address everyone individually. We answer every email sent to hello at brilliant dot co.

I will actively monitor this forum now and please let me know if you have any questions.

I realize that many will doubt our intentions, but for those of you that are generous enough to forgive honest (though very real) mistakes, I thank you.

Adam

Thanks for chiming in Adam, appreciate the transparency and happy to hear that you won’t be requiring SSNs.

The affidavit was a surprise, especially since the requirements that you are asking people to sign weren’t originally disclosed and were only sent out after the free bike codes were emailed and some orders were placed.

It’s hard for non-lawyers like myself to know what to make with the legalese in it. I’m sure many winners didn’t even read or understand it when they signed, but not everyone is like that.

Can you comment on your marketing plans with the winners info? And are you really looking to promote my full name and image for your marketing?
Surely you could have found winners better looking than myself if that’s the case 😉

@Dan

None of us are lawyers either and we used an affidavit drafted for another company to save on our legal costs – they’re $800 per hour! The language you refer to was already in there and we assumed it was standard.

We have no intention of using anyone’s likeness or personal information without specific affirmative approval from them in addition to the affidavit. We had hoped to be able to showcase some happy winners, though that’s looking a little less likely now :/

For anyone that would like to remove this clause, please just strike a line through it and place your initials next to the paragraph.

Just to re-iterate, no marketing materials or messages using names, images, or anything personally identifiable would ever happen without a personal 1:1 email asking permission and showing an example of the suggested post.

We would certainly love for anyone who does receive and enjoy their bike to post positive comments on social using their own likeness. We can sure use it right now…

Thanks for providing a forum that gives me the chance to help clear things up.

Adam

Thanks Adam, makes much more sense now!

i will put only a faxe ss # and fake date of birth

perhaps threaten or actually go after them in small claims court and call the bbb in their state and report them any start up new company isnt looking for negative publicity before they even open

i got an airline to back off their 24 hour cancellation guarantee when i cancelled 3 hours late and they wouldn’t refund to my cc we went back and forth for 2 months until i called and filed a complaint with the BBB a day later i received notification from the credit card that the airline was crediting my ticket
so it seems even big companies dont appreciate negative publicity

@Dan:

irs is getting very strict about free givaways. they very offen want to ensure that no one affiliated with the promotion, sweepstakes or givaway is winning the prize, especially for non profits

I’m not sure how this fits into the picture but when Chase gives you $200 for opening an account, they give you a 1099 even though it’s less than $600.

@yonah:
That’s something totally different.

@MeirS:
That’s for a 1099-INT, not a prize winning.

Here is some info on the founders of Brilliant bicycles if any body cares to know…

http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/person.asp?personId=241873350

http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/person.asp?personId=222568961

They also raised over a million dollars through crowd funding a few months ago under a different company name.

http://www.whogotfunded.com/deals/303830-karma-cycles-inc

They seem legit.

Dan: I think its only fair to post adam’s comment in bold red letters on top of the post. Just my two cents.

you should not be required to relay over that info .

@Chaim: its not hard to get ss info exp.based on the first few numbers you can tell were they were born.