Can Anyone Explain The New Travel Electronics Ban To Me?

They think people are going to start placing chemical bombs in them

Ibrahim Al-Asiri probably. AQAP probably threatened the US that he created a new bomb within an electronic. He’s done it before.

Ugh. Sorry Dan :-/

really perceptive dan. thanks for this. and i’m sorry this is going to affect your plans on such short notice. really brutal.

this is going to cause chaos because Istanbul, Doha, Abu Dhabi, and Dubai have become such important hubs for travelers not just to the Middle East but all of Africa and Asia too.

i wondered too about whether this was just trade protectionism in another guise.

along with Nigeria, Pakistan is also not included here and I think PIA still has direct flights to the US. that is also strange.

and isn’t Garuda flying to the US soon?

will be a help to US airlines who do not have non-stop to these muslim countries and passengers who need their devices will pay to fly with a stop through europe…..

I’m so freaking upset .. I’m flying NY to TLV for Pesach on Turkish via Istanbul .. taking a MacBook and Bose QC25 with me .. are you sure we can’t take the Bose on flights ? Idk what I’ll do without my MacBook ..

It can be explained in one sentence: Racist, fear-mongering pieces of garbage.

Every time they get a tip or someone tries something they implement a new rule and they leave for ever!
Shoes , liquids for example
And now iPads ??????

Soon human beings won’t be allowed to travel
Only dogs and robots

i pray for the day when idiots aren’t in charge of stuff. nuff said.

Didn’t hear a ban on headphone?

Yep, thats the new administration crazy ideas…

@Obvious Answer: wow…it only took 6 comments to bring in the race card

along with my point about the amount of traffic that flows from Africa and Asia, i doubt Homeland Security even stopped to consider that, or travelers from Israel, Greece, Eastern Europe, etc. who filter through those hubs.

like the first Muslim ban, this doesn’t seem well-thought-out or planned. and just seems destined to cause chaos.

Agreed that this makes no sense. I commented (jokingly) in the DD FB group that it’s probably the best argument for not taking TK to Israel. But annoying that this regulation exists, though I could see this one being pretty short-lived.

Best of luck with your travel back, Dan.

@Dan why post a link to something with such nevel peh?

We don’t know why the US (and now UK) government issued this travel warning. I know that trust in our institutions has declined but, that said, I think your rant is selfish, unjustified and probably foolish. This certainly isn’t an “anti-Muslim” thing. The directive was issued because our intelligence agencies believe there is a sufficient threat to air safety to justify it. Could they be wrong? Of course they could be. National “intelligence” is notoriously unreliable. That said, if “intelligence” ignored the threat, and a plane was taken down by one of these devices, all Americans — and responsible world citizens — would be outraged. While it’s always wise to question government actions, I think it’s still also wise to give the benefit of the doubt to security directives.

I also find it particularly ironic that you, a Jew, would underestimate the terror threat from these Middle East nations. There are many people in these countries that, honestly, would like to kill you. It is certainly not beyond the realm of the possible that there are people in these nations trying to use these electronic devices to kill innocent civilians. I think perhaps you should consider this possibility when weighing the inconvenience you will now be subject to due to your willingness to fly totalitarian, heavily subsidized Muslim airline just because they offer you free tickets and (subsidized) premium service.

@dan. Now if u gotta put laptop in luggauge more for tsa to steal when they rummage through it

Flights arrive from Abu Dhabi just as a regfular domestic US flight, so why is this rule in place for Abu Dhabi?

Feb 1, big three write letter to Sec of State complaining that since middle east airlines are subsidized they dont have to worry about profits and can take US market share.
About 10 days later president meets with big 3 CEOs.
As you mentioned unions continue to lobby against international carriers, including against Norwegian Air.
Sean Spicer states, Norwegian Air is employing US crew and buying Boeing fleet, so that is good for US economic interest.
Suddenly, DHS limits electronic devices. Sounds like an attack on business model and not security threat to me.

@Dan: did this actually happen to you or is it a response that you’re giving to someone else?

@dan

absolutely.

and did the President even bring this up with the Saudis when they were in town? or did he give them and the Emiratis a heads-up?

Emirates reps have said they received no advance notice: https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/us-electronics-ban-emirates-eight-muslim-countries-dubai-homeland-security-tsa-donald-trump-a7640821.html

which seems crazy to implement such a radical new security process

Great post. Best line:
“We’re just lucky that we can still wear underwear after the failed underwear bombing incident.”
Sorry it’s messing up your trip.

Yeah UK just announced similar but oddly different bans on electronics. I thought I read the airlines or countries were different.

I’m also reading that people are concerned because these lithium batteries were known to cause fires in cargo area. What is a statistical bigger hazard? The possibility of a fire onboard due to these electronics in cargo or someone smuggling a bomb on board in an electronic device, or whatever concern the ban is trying to address?

This is part of trumps new travel ban, they blocked his ban on people so he had to ban something else instead

🙁

Dan, just curious what countries are you visiting on this trip?

So sorry this has affected you. I couldnt believe it when I read a few days ago. I said to my husband that there are going to be some really unhappy people on those flights with nothing to do unless they brought hard copy books/magazines with them 🙁 I cant imagine being on a flight that long with kids and no tablet/dvd player. That is a LOT of time for parents to fill with other entertainment…

@iahphx:
While you’ve decided to bash Dan, you haven’t actually debunked any of his reasoning.

More importantly, why is the bar so low for Trump that we can continue to justify any sit of thought bubble he has?

@Obvious Answer:

I would bet this ban has more to do with business, rather than racism. If one was trying to promulgate racism, I would guess there are more effective ways of accomplishing that. Is this ban dumb? Yes. Was it enacted as a result of racism? I don’t think so.

time will tell why the ban is in effect. same thing for Trump’s Travel Ban. we need to protect our country!!

Dan, I want to thank you for your perceptive and investigative journalist like post. I am muslim (a peaceful one, sad i have to mention this.. but a Human Being first and foremost) and watch in horror of what our country continues to become. I thank you for your site and your post here.. We dont usually see u get political, but u have an angle here that affects you and your fans alike.. I dont know of the merits of your suggestion but it makes sense at the very least. Safe travels my friend… And PLEASE find someone to publish on Saturdays, I know u take off due to ur religious obligations (Shabbat) and I respect that.. But u have a bunch of fiendish, frantic and obsessive fans here that check the website 24hrs/day.. multiple times a day!

Nothing to do with the TSA – you can still take the large electronics on outbound flights. If it was a serious security issue why not ban them on all flights?!?
Where do they draw the line? Is iPhone 7Plus OK? Is Samsung Note?
There’s no way to secure the ipads & laptops in your checked bags.
The affected airlines should start renting devices for the flights you just plug your stick in and go, but of course no security for your data…

I also use Israel as my barometer for security. If they don’t have such a policy from IST, I fail to see the enormity of the treat, though the US does, in general, have stricter requirements on inbound flights.

They said there was a threat with these bombs in electronics like these but threat not imminent
And there not sure there scanners , yes even tsa scanners would detect a chemical bomb

@Dan: well said

Dan: CBS news in NY just confirmed it was based on an exploding laptop and not from a battery failure.

There are many angles to pursue with this- Maybe there is legit intelligence finding suggesting terrorists have found a way to implant explosives into a laptop/ipad.. Maybe this is a way to further drive the agenda with this Trump admin that Muslims are dangerous and should be vetted to their underwear…. Maybe the ideal is as u suggested: to drive up purchases of USA based airline tickets to benefit Trumps misguided and uninformed “america first” policy (but in this case will travelers ONLY buy tickets that avoid these airports, will the media or average traveler find out?)…. Has a terrorist attack been foiled already with the method of terrorism consistent with using a laptop/ipad?… Is there a new technology that allows for scanning of phones/laptops/ipad/etc without actually physically connecting to it via a usb or something (high level conspiracy theory but maybe.. right)? Ask questions, report the FACTS, believe in science and look out for one another.

I so far have not heard of a reason behind this ban, is it for electronics blowing up? Or to go through people’s laptops?
If they are worried about devices blowing up what will stop them from below the plane where all the luggage is located and cause a national disaster,or because the luggage is placed in a compressed compartment where oxygen level is nearly to none as fire can’t breath?

Or for the reason to go through passengers info from their electronics?
They plan to open every piece of luggage and search through the hard drive for specific info?

I hear no reason for such a ban!
All I see from this ban is a huge mess and those who are laughing are those terrorist who were hoping to be able to limit everything possible when flying and to make the world scared of them.
All of the countries are showing yes were scared and let’s ban the electronics for a senseless reason, but never-the-less the Samsung note which only blew up a few times on the plane that’s ok, but a laptop or some other portable electronic device which you hardly hear about is being banned!

Next Ban.. Just watch the wifi on board being banned and no airlines are allowed to offer such services, as it can cause….
#What a wacky world we live in!

@Dan:

Yes, it is certainly reasonable to challenge the “laptop ban” as overbroad. For example, if the US truly controls security at AUH, this would be a good argument to except them from the rule. Of course, if you thought about it, I’m pretty sure you can guess how/why this rule was implemented. Somebody in the intelligence community picked up some information that indicated the possibility of imminent harm. The rule was then rushed out — as it should be. It’s obviously easy to narrow the rule — or eliminate it — as circumstances warrant.

I do think it is very wrong to underestimate the risk of terror emanating from these Middle East nations. I know flying Emirates and such is very nice, but these are not Western airlines or Western nations. To use the President’s language, there are a lot of “bad hombres” (aka jihadists) in that part of the world. I don’t think the government was simply idiotic to implement this ban, and the idea that it’s doing it to help the USA airlines is absurd (the same gov’t that hasn’t been able to get off its butt to put reasonable limitations on these airlines, despite irrefutable evidence that they’re distorting the global aviation industry by receiving tens of billions in subsidies; apparently Boeing’s interests are more important than the USA airlines and their employees). If you, like Boeing, want to “take advantage” of totalitarian-Muslim-government largesse — and I don’t blame you for doing so — don’t be so quick to complain when the dark side of “doing business” in these nations also rears its head.

I have to completely agree with iahphx. Dan, I’m a big fan, and frum, but, with respect, your argument support about dinner with rabbi in DBX is not pertinent.

MAGA: Make American kids go crazy on flights Again!

I’m sorry because I know you aren’t used to doing it the way your mother did. Yes, it was harder. Advice: coloring books and crayons, go fish, travel games, etc. I’m too tired to think of more but I know your mother in law so ask her. She is the queen of organization,

“The truth is that I very likely would have cancelled the trip if I knew about this rule before I left home on Sunday.”
Really? I get that it’s annoying, but I would never cancel a planned trip over it. Enjoy!

keeping the flight and the country safe is a lot more important than “keep the kids occupied” or doing some work during flight. in the past 8 yrs, it’s been too wide open, now it’s time to face what it should have been in the first place.

@Dan, you know absolutely nothing about security!
Don’t post about things you don’t know!
I fully understand you had a hard long flight, but that does not mean you need to say such things.
Obviously, the United States government has a reason, and if you don’t trust them, then you have a lot more things to worry about…

@Judah2: I agree with you, why post something you know shouldn’t be there

Officials said the new directive was not based on information pointing to a credible, specific threat of an imminent attack. Instead, it reflected a new consensus among American intelligence agencies that terrorist groups such as the Islamic State and the Al Qaeda franchise in Yemen are increasingly trying to find ways to smuggle explosive devices hidden in electronic devices, like laptops

@Dan

Maybe contact Etihad and see if they would gate check just prior to boarding as courtesy sparing it from traveling thru the bowels of the entire airport en route to the plane? You’re in first after all.

Not sure how that would work with TSA pre clear though but maybe they can work something out. Is TSA going to send folks back to check in if they find electronics or does the airline bear the responsibility to check everyone before takeoff?

Dan, don’t listen to these haters. I’m totally with you and i can’t believe that there are individuals that are attacking you on your blog and can’t show you the respect that you deserve. Safe trip.

Dan is simply pointing out how this ban makes no sense – he’s not anti security or against the U.S. govt! And like he said, this is HIS website so I think its a fair forum for him to share his point of view (which is totally logical).

Folks, you’re all entitled to your opinion. But, since you’re on here cause you check to see what deals you can find, its a matter of basic gratitude (hakoras hatov) to not express your opinions in a nasty way, such as “you know absolutely nothing…”
Just sayin

A silver lining at least… With actual paid J class sales likely to drop, award availability should increase.

@Moish: I won’t speak for others, but I know I’m not “hating” on Dan. I think he does wonderful, useful work on this blog. But I think he’s wrong here to attack the government security directive primarily on the basis that it will inconvenience him. It’s bad timing, to be sure. But it’s also important not to forget that doing business with these companies and countries is not like doing business with, say, Air France or KLM. It’s a rough part of the world, and below the shiny veneer, not everything is wonderful. I personally think the benefits (good service, cheap and available award redemptions) still outweigh the risks, but that’s for everyone to decide for themselves, perhaps after examining their own conscience (I’ve personally stopped flying Turkish). Just go into it with eyes wide open, and don’t be so quick to complain when the USA government takes steps to insure everyone’s safety. Even if, as the government is prone to do, there is error on “too much” concern in a way that personally inconveniences you.

I don’t disagree with all of your points, Dan, nor the justified complaining of others that this rule is arbitrary and unjustified.

That said: you aren’t reduced to (horrors!) reading a book or sitting on your hands. All of these flights have IFE systems. I get that you now can’t take out your laptop and work, but other than that, you’re already covered by IFE.

HEY DAN : YOU look 2 jewish. I hope it safe for you to be hanging out in dubai amongst all those arabs

Dan, I think you buried the lede. You brought rain to the desert!

@iahphx (#42) and @Robert (#50):
Yes, the government has a reason, but the reason is obviously not security. It is apparent that Dan knows more about security than those who promulgated this rule. To wit:
– if a laptop is dangerous in the cabin, how is it any less dangerous in the cargo hold? The cell phone that is allowed in the cabin can easily be used as a remote detonator.
– if a terrorist has created a laptop-weapon, what’s to keep them from shipping it in the cargo hold to some non-affected airport (say NYC), then pulling it out and deploying it on a flight to LAX?
– if the answer to the above is better security screening, then we’re back to Dan’s point about the inclusion of Abu Dhabi and non-inclusion of places like Nigeria.

Bottom line, the action taken doesn’t address the threat that is posed.

I’m confused, is there a stopover loophole, if so why will tlv-nyc on Turkish be an issue?

Trump is trying to divert attention from yesterday’s Congressional hearings by releasing this ban now months after a laptop bomb exploded on a plane. Simply politics, not an effort to inconvenience Dan.

This post and comments makes me sad. Yes I know I willingly clicked on it. I did not need to. I unfortunately read all the posts. I will now go to my happy place and play some country music on my Bose Quietcomfort 35 headphones I bought because of Dan. Let my toddlers scream, I cannot hear them now.

Obviously this will hurt Etihad, Emirates, Qatar and Turkish to the benefit of US and other European airlines.

The other benefactors might be travel insurance companies, which could see a boost of people wanting to insure their valuable electronics which can no longer be carried on-board.

yup protectionism

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-02-08/u-s-shouldn-t-raise-barriers-to-middle-eastern-airlines

Aright aright,
Can’t they just set up an x ray machine for those who come in from those places when they go through customs?
Yeh I know this opens up a whole nother can of worms

Why doesnt the government ban any car that an go more than 30mph. Over 35,000 americans die a year in car crashes, and tens of thousands would not have died if the cars could not go faster than 30mph. Are we willing to sacrifice for safety in a way that is proven will save tens of thousands of American lives every year??

@nudnik: Better yet, they can pass a law that all cars must have steel cages, like the race cars that can withstand a 200 mph collision. That’ll reduce fatalities to next to nothing (assuming people are wearing a seatbelt).
But that would cost money…

maybe its hashems way to make us carry a GMARA , or a MUSAR Sefer instead of a macbook or tablet

Delta flies to Nigeria, so it’s convenient *that that *

Double that!

@love dan: Yeh, but some people have their learning on their tablet.

Dan, I hope your enjoying your trip and I really enjoy your blog and have benefited alot. Thank you very much. However, I don’t think it makes sense for you to get so upset and lose control over this issue even assuming that all your suspicions are correct -which they probably aren’t. You have a lot of people following you and we have high expectations from you not to mention that clip which I did not open because my wife didn’t want to get the computer dirty and she assumed it based on your conversation in this thread. I think you wrote this while in anger and it’s not justified to get so upset over such things. Life is good-or so it seems so I don’t think for being separated from a drone and laptop for a few hours should……Dan, you’re a great guy and I’m a huge follower and look forward to higher things Chachma Binah Daas 🙂

I am perfectly happy with new law.

President Bannon and Liar Trump and all of their cohorts are Xenophobic/Bigot/Racist/Facists/Tyrants. They stole the Election with help from Russia’s Putin. They want to grab more power by “fear-mongering” like what happended right after 9/11 (Chaney, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld).
W was a puppet then and T is now a puppet now.

@Yossi: How do logical arguments come off as angry?

I haven’t seen a single answer to the actual points that Dan made in this post.

Not one answer was given for how this stops any terrorism.

Why be so self-centered and put your laptop as being more important than National Security? I for one don’t think that Muslim countries that are unsafe terrorist threats should be able to even have flights to the states. This ban is a step in the right direction

@SS: I would counter and say a laptop that is checked is much less of a threat because security screeners have much more flexibility in examining luggage if necessary. They have more advanced tools like MRI and 3d scanning that aren’t available yet at security.

From an operational standpoint if there appears to be a legitimate threat that explosives or other hazardous materials are being smuggled on board via electronics how would you handle it. You obviously can’t shut down air travel. I don’t know if there is a better approach than a short term ban on carrying on large electronics until a better system is in place.

I hear how this can appear to be a way to backlash against state subsidized airlines but I think there would be better avenues for American airlines to air their grievances. But this world is a crazy place and this ban might really just be that petty. I’m giving the benefit of the doubt and hoping that something real is going on and we have enough competent people in place to prevent it from actualizing.

Why do some people think we have to blindly trust and believe our government because they say it’s for our safety. Anyone ever heard of bridgegate? Fast and furious? Power corrupts and being human mistakes are made.
Dan makes many good points and would be curious if someone has a legitimate sounding response.

@Yossi: Really Yossi?
I had better expectations of you. I had hoped you wouldn’t grow up to be such a CONDESCENDING nasty….
Everybody, please bless your children that they shouldn’t grow up to act like Yossi.

As a travel blogger, its Dan’s forte to write about travel conveniences, be they minor or major. These things help people plan their trips.
I was actually thinking about the whole Dubai thing. I remember reading some interesting stuff in Zman.

As someone who knows Dan for quite a while, let me assure you that he didn’t lose control, nor write this in any fit of anger.

BTW, I have a strong suspicion that all his assumptions are correct.

Dan who did you travel with?

Alternatively, this is just a way for the US to have access to people’s laptops when coming into the country.

Agree with DD fan, at this point with your popularity and audience you really need someone that doesn’t observe shabbat posting on Saturdays. I remember a fare deal last year on a Saturday that your site wasn’t able to cover.

I dont get it. Who exactly at these foreign airports is enforcing this rule? The airport security agents? If so, how do they know which passengers are US bound, and which are just flying to other countries?
Or is there secondary security before you board?

It should be mentioned that today is the anniversary of the Belgium shooting so maybe there is increased concern because of that.

@Dan, I am sorry about your trip sounds really upsetting. Nonetheless as some articles have argued, I would ask you if you feel as some have argued (not here) that protectionism in this case is legitimate because of all the subsidies these airlines receive (in particular the Gulf states) making the market asymmetric and disadvantaged for US companies that are not getting any funding from the government?

Just a note that this has just been extended to other airlines flying to the UK from selected countries, and that includes BA and EasyJet among others.

Not sure if this is doable, but maybe through petitions to congress people, some modification can be made so that travelers in Business Class (which are generally a fraction of the total number of passengers) should be allowed to be subjected to special screening, allowing them to carry their larger electronics.

It seems to reason that people travelling business class NEED to have laptops, and possibly other electronics with them.

@Who could we petition: You must be aware that taxes and fees that pay for security are the same regardless of class traveled, ticket price or even frequent flyer tickets. Why should a business class passenger have any special privilege. In fact, it is not clear why the US Government allows special treatment for premium class passengers on the lines.
By the way, I spent a decade travelling economy transatlantic for business and there were no smartphones or tablets then.

@Moish:

FULLY AWARE OF THAT !!! (BY THE WAY THE SEFARIA APP IS AMAZZINGGG !!!) BUT MAYBE HASHEM WANTS US TO LEARN FROM AN ACTUAL SEFER FOR A WHILE…

“The US airlines have lobbied for years against competition from the Middle Eastern airlines, so this ban is pretty convenient for the US airlines. Those airlines have been eating the US airlines’ lunch. And dinner.”

This was my first thought when I read about this ridiculous ban.

@PETITION, IF u like to go biz, just go with US Based airlines, and do not stop over at some sesitive countries, why petition?
Fly united, delta, AA, LY, BA – many great options.
Let the “nice guys” pay with their pockets. its ok
Get europe the nice place it was.
today another “friendly islamic” terrorist in London.
time to wake up and send them back. their many countries large enough to host and support all of them. I do not want my tax dollars to support those.

http://www.vosizneias.com/265424/2017/03/22/jerusalem-former-israeli-airport-security-boss-electronics-ban-makes-little-sense/

Hi Dan, love your blog. Could i have some practical advice please? I am currently in Zambia (Ive been traveling in Africa for several months now- im a backpacking travel blogger) and im looking at a return flight from JNB-NYC in about a month. The cheapest flight is Etihad ($500) followed by Emirates ($550). I could also take a United flight (SA Airlines) which would avoid the ban but it would be quadruple the price ($2200) on a far inferior flight and it would land in EWR which is a real pain to get back to Brooklyn.

I have a 2.5 year old MacBook Pro, it was about $2500 new. I also have two cameras though neither are over $1000. Also have a new travel speaker which was $200. All of this usually goes in my day pack which i bring on the plane (and I usually do a bunch of work, writing on long-haul flights unfortunately)

Whats the best way of protecting myself and my equipment knowing that 1) JNB is notorious for theft and 2) Im backpacking so protecting all my gear especially my computer would be… extremely difficult (I dont have a standard luggage- just a big old school expedition pack. Are the airlines liable for all my gear if it gets damaged or stolen?
I have the whole range of cards (Amex Platinum, Chase Reserve, United Mileage Plus, Citi Prestige…)

THANKS IN ADVANCE!

@Who could we petition: I agree and I suggest that those in First should be allowed a larger laptop and a dictating machine as they obviously have more work to do otherwise they wouldn’t have booked into First.

I guess you think with Kasich this would not have happened

@Dan: Everything is security theater when it comes down to it. The only real ways to prevent terrorism will never happen in the US: Profiling and prison-style screening. This ban is overkill but I guarantee it covers so many things to stop the argument of what is considered a laptop, tablet, etc. You give people an inch and they take a mile. As for asking why this ban is in place, the intelligence is “classified” but you don’t need to look further than the guys from Somolia and Egypt that had help from airport personnel help bring explosives on planes.

@>Dan

I assume that you have access to calcified intelligence reports regarding this ban otherwise How would you know that there is to many loopholes and problems